Why the next project should be an Eve Pro Notebook


#41

After working with V for a little while, I’m all for touchscreen capability for the 15 Pro laptop… but only if it does not mean many sacrifices.

That’s so weird! I would never imagine that market below 15 is the safer one. In my very limited experience, anything between 12.3 and 15 is very murky and not that popular at all.
That being said, I’m obviously not the target audience, it seems : )


#42

That’s good because I can’t ever go back to non touch :stuck_out_tongue:

Yeah I dunno, I may be off on this one but I feel quietly confident. Eve should get clarification from Microsoft or intel as to what the more popular market is before putting all their eggs in one basket


#43

One may think about a detachable screen with a foldable kickstand to counter the top heaviness. Hmm, does that make it a 2in1?
The hinges: is an adapted hinge à la Brydge a possible way to go - with a magnetic lock instead of a ‘Brydge friction lock’ (no wear and tear)?


#44

If people want a traditional laptop then they can choose from the dozens of laptop models available already in the market.

Eve created the V because they were unhappy with current offerings in the market for 2 in 1 tablet/laptop devices. There has to be a need or thirst in the market where there aren’t many competitive offerings.

A detachable 2 in 1 performance laptop/tablet is the way to go.


#45

As I’ve recently been looking for a semi-powerful (1050ti and up) which was portable and had a decent screen, since the person I was looking it for is an graphic/3d/motiongraphic-designer. Those things are hard to find! They all compromise on something. So I’d say there still is room for the more powerful laptops to be there. A gaming laptop performance in a actually nice looking shell.

When it comes to the thin-and-light factor. There is a lot of competition whom don’t really offer anything special.

Also, there is one addition I’d like to have for the specsheet… MagSafe!!!


#46

Sorry, took me same days to come back to this. So, here we go:

I second that. I am looking around right now for a potential Notebook and am a bit horrified because all other manufacturers obviously try to surpass each other with stupid decisions. Wouldn’t know what to buy right now.

Yes, please! I don’t need fancy gaming stuff. I want to work and chill in between.

Great idea. BUT: The market seems to have a weird distinction between 13" on the one hand and 14/15" on the other hand: Most premium 15 inch devics come with CPUs and graphics that need more power. Idle power consumption is much higher than on 13" laptops, and not only because of the bigger screen. There is not a single 14/15" device with 15W CPU + good screen + good battery runtime like a 13" device.

About the GPU: I don’t really need one and it takes up space. You are right that it should not affect idle consumption if done properly, so I wouldn’t mind it if there was a GPU.

Just an idea: Maybe it is possible to have two configurations with/without GPU. The version without GPU gets a bigger/second battery where the other version has the GPU But I’m not sure about the size of those PCIe graphic cards and if it that efford with two versions would pay off if you gain only minimal extra space.

Absolutely. Main selling factor for me is brightness and scren quality. And to be honest there are not many devics out there that come with good brighness. Basically there are only

  • Macbook Pro (~550 nits). I. LOVE. THAT. SCREEN!!! :heart_eyes:
  • Surface Book (~400 nits, sometimes more, sometimes less)
  • Porsche Design Book One (>400 nots)
  • new HP x360 1020 G2 (13") and 1040 G4 (15") which both can be configured with a 700 nits screen (but sadly bad contrast due to SureView privacy technique).

Well, there it ends already… Sadly each of those devices has other bad decisions… (like no USB-A, not USB-C, no Thundebolt, small opening angle, …). Dell’s XPS 13 is often measured only with 330 nits. Some new devices come with such a rediciously bad screen with <300 nits and no option for something better. First thing when I read a review is going to the screen section, reading about that bad brightness and immediately closing the review… :disappointed_relieved:

About the form factor:
I like the 360° hinges, sadly they are mostly coupled with too small batteries. It could be useful even with a 15" device weighing 1.8kg. Because you can also use it on a desk or your lap. But: The keybord must automatically swith off when in “tablet mode”.

Yeeeah! Battery. Battery. Battery. Just an example: Samsung manages to put a 75Wh battery into a light 13" device @995g weight. Even the 15" version with 75Wh and nVidia MX150 and just 15.4mm heightweighs only “1,250g – 1,290g” (spec sheet) or 1.4kg (text):

So we NEED that Samsung Hexacell battery tech!

I can agree on most of those points, but would change:

  • Go with a full size SD card. Photographers will love that! We should learn from reviews around the net and their main critics: Every review will point out that this still has a full SD card slot which was a main critic in most Macbook Pro and other reviews.
  • Why full size HDMI if we have Thunderbolt/USB-C? Both is just one cable (HDMI-HDMI, or USB-C to HDMI). Well, yeah, I get it. You don’t need to bring the cable with you, you can use the cables in the conference room, ok. But, peersonally, I wouldn’t need it. Just put a bigger battery where the HDMI port would be :joy:
  • Don’t know if this is a factor, but consider putting both TB3/USB-C on the same side, and both USB-A on the other side to save space internally for cable management/screws or internal cards for the ports.

Reason to go not with too many ports and make a well thought out decision: Keep it as small as possible with as many ports/featues at the same time. The more ports we put in, the more tech needs to be inside which shrinks the space for the battery or makes the device bulky.

I would love to get:

  • 15W Quad Core for good idle power consumption
  • big, big battery (user replacable)
  • insanely bright screen, at least like MacBook Pro (>500 nits), better ~700 nits like the new HPs.
  • silent fan under light stress
  • USB-C PD on all ports

I would pay any amount for that device, but the market is too stupid to biuld something actually useful… So, pleeeeease: Go, Eve! Go! Go! Go!

And some more ideas:

Windows Hello camera AND fingerprint sensor in the power button. Why not take both?

Why not offer only 16GB and 32GB models (to keep SKU number small)? Soldered RAM makes the device thicker. I would love it as small as possible with as many ports/features/battery as possible.
Edit: What I meant was using ONLY soldered RAM and not offering a slot. My brain must have passed out… :wink:

Definitively. The use should be able to open the bottom part. The SSD and battery must be user replacable. Those two parts are essential. SSD because of privacy concerns in warrenty cases (or if it breaks) and battery to just put a new inside when the old one lost capacity. I guess the Wireless card will be accessable too (only available as PCIe card?), though I never needed to replace one.


#47

Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Yoga 2nd Gen 20JD000WUS 14" WQHD (2560 x 1440) OLED Touchscreen Display 2-in-1 Ultrabook - Intel Core i7-7600U Processor, 16GB RAM, 512GB PCIe SSD, Windows 10 Pro

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071VSTX4Y/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_j9LtAbAN57BWD

We should try to make a better version of this. The hinge will be the difficulty since we all want to compete with Surface Book. I think it would be cool if the base and the screen could connect by 2 usbc thunderbolt ports on the screen. This would allow for games to be played directly on the screen, since bandwidth wouldn’t be a limiting factor. Also you’d have ports on the screen and base. You’d need a pretty strong hinge tho.


#48

I woudn’t consider that a good screen. It has only 274 nits of brightness, is very reflective and is unusable under bright light or sunshine. With “good screen” I meant something like Macbook Pro (550 nits), at least >400 nits.

Brightness according to LaptopMag:

I think we should aim for the best possible screen out there.

  • bright (better than Macbook Pro would be a dream)
  • colors
  • reflective coating

#49

The space gained would be quite reasonable actually. The half dozen of GDDR5 memory chips would occupy at least 3x the space of the GPU chip itself.

The problem is that they cant share the same amount of components anymore. Now you have to have two different batteries, different mainboards, etc. which means different manufacturing line, different part number, etc.

I would argue that the space gained from removing one port can easily be compensated by making the device 0.5mm thicker, or somewhere in that ballpark. Its been the excuse used by manufacturers to remove ports, while the Eve V has proven that its no more than pure BS.

The V has no problem fitting 48 Wh battery and 4 USB ports at the same time at just 0.5mm thicker than the SP5, not to mention there is still some free space inside the V itself that cant be used because it was not possible to get a custom battery.

Completely disagree. Having them on different sides are a lot more convenient since you can choose where the charging cable comes from.

Cost, complexity. And ultimately, more rooms for errors. See how hard it was to make the power button on the V. It would have been infinitely easier if there was no fingerprint sensor integrated inside.

Im not saying its not worth the cost or effort, it definitely does, but just to give you some idea how complicated it is to include more components.

Quite the opposite actually. Soldered RAM can greatly shrink the mainboard, which in turns allow the battery to be more spread out / thinner. Usually its the battery that defines the device’s thickness.


#50

Some thoughts about the form factor.

Is see some fundamental problems with detachables.

  • The screen too heavy (due to the battery and tech)
  • This allows you to open it not as far as a laptop (It does not work to use a Surface Book when lying on a couch and putting it onto your angles legs)
    (contrary to Surface-like devices which you can’t use in nearly 90° angle, like when lying in bed or on a couch without angling your legs as a stand, so both concepts have a problem with screen angles)

Possible with current detachables like Surface Book:
COLOURBOX1934455_300px

Not comfortable with current detachables (opening angle is always limited by manufacturer, I use my Lenovo often nearly 170° opened in a similar position):
laptop-lying-on-a-sofa-300px3_300px

Indeed. I would prefer a 2-in-1. And frankly there is no reason not to do it, or am I overlooking something?

  • It’s just a more free opening angle, not limiting you in any way.
  • On top we could offer touch and pen support.
  • Even if it’s a bit more heavy/big, you can still use the pen to paint on a desk or on your lap (but actuyally if pen/touch means less brightness I don’t really need it, go with the better screen because there are already a lot of 2-in-1 devices, but not many laptops with great bright screens!)

ALu without painting.

I see both points differently, actuylly there is not a single laptop out there I would like to buy! Reasons:

  • Surface Book: no USB-C, no USB-PD, opening angle limited, battery not exchangable
  • Surface Laptop: screen not very bright, no Thunderbolt/USB-C
  • Dell XPS 13: screen not very bright
  • Dell XPS 15: screen not very bright, high power consumption (no version with 15W CPU + big battery)
  • Macbook Pro 13/15: despite the perfect screen it sadly has no USB-A ports, could have a bigger battery (nobody would have called the old version big/heavy, I wish they had kept the 78W? battery for an even better battery runtime)
  • HP x360 1020 G2: battery runtime not too great, no USB-A
  • all the rest: too lazy to write the same over and over again…

All in all: There is no laptop with

  • very bright screen
  • USB-A
  • USB-C + USB-PD
  • Thunderbolt
  • big battery, long runtime
  • silent
  • reasonably sized (no monster). This is possible if you look at the new Samsung Notebook 9 (2018) series, which sadly is not distributed world wide :sleepy:

There is only the V offering all this in a Surface style device.
Funny thing: Though I don’t like Apple, the new Macbook Pro 13 (without touchbar) comes closest to what I’m searching and I considered getting one, but then again: no USB-A, battery could be bigger (runtime could be better when using full brightness outside).

I think a bit the same. Many people want something still portable, many 15" devices are a bit on the heavy side, maybe 14" would be a sweet spot if we use small screen margins.

But please: with a centered camera on the top! Not like Dell XPS: the screen bezels make no real sense, since they could have centered the screen more downwards still keeeping the same size. Another example of garbage decesions made for the fancy advertisment/prospects without any real benefit, ignoring the drawbacks for design (weird camer perspective).


#51

Sure, from a usability standpoint it could be better to have 1xUSB-C/TB3 + 1xUSB-A on each side, I just wanted to point out that we maybe could save some space internally if we get ports/connection-boards each having both ports combined in one piece. But I’m not too familiar with that stuff.

I thought more about using the same main battery and putting a 2nd battery into it, instead of the additional GPU, because an integrated graphincs with the same board is there anyway it you want to switch between graphics depending on load (to save battery in office work). So we could still share the same mainboard and the same battery. We would “just” need to plan the internals in a way that would allow to install GPU or battery like other laptops allow for 2.5" drives or a second battery (Dell does/did that in some models).

That part was more a joke. If it’s meant as a buiness device a HDMI port is handy because you don’t need to bring your own adapter or USB-C to HDMI cable. And sure we wouldn’t gain much space by removing it.

What? Where was my brain when writing this? What I meant was to use ONLY soldered RAM on the board and NOT make it extendable. Because shipping with an empty RAM slot uses quite some space. So I would prefer to just offer 16GB or 32GB options (soldered on the board). With a reasonable price :wink:


#52

Did you checked new (2018) Dell XPS 13"?


#53

Yep 14.25" would split the difference between 13.5 and 15, problem is only 13.5 inch 3:2 displays are readily available


#54

Saw the announcement, sadly no USB-A, smaller battery, but not lighter. Maybe I would consider it if it has a bright screen. Could not find any specs for screen brightness, no good sign. I assume it’s the same screen as before, advertised with 400 nits, but often reaching only 330 nits, as many reviews point out.


#55

For 4K screens they say over 450 nits + over 100 % sRGB coverage.


#56

#57

And it’s in rose gold which will appeal to girls

Eg it may help you to attract girls too!

Ps speaking generally, not saying that you need or want to attract a girl… LOL


#58

Another good reference for the “normal laptop” scenario could be the Dell Precision 5520. If you configure it with an M.2 PCIe SSD instead of a SATA one, you get a large battery (97 Wh), and it achieves an impressive battery life (12h) for a 15’’ workstation (Xeon E3-1505M, Nvidia Quadro M1200). Plus, good keyboard, TB3, good screen (although not very bright) and one of the best designs around (15’’ in a 14’’ form factor, and not looking like a workstation at all).


#59

Nice machine. I must admit I hadn’t really heard about this model, whereas everyone knows about the xps line. This model blows the xps out of the water!

But harsh of the reviewer to give only 4 out of 5 when the only con is the poorly placed webcam


#60

That’s exactly what I thought. I was really surprised when I first read about it. The only downside against the XPS line is the increased price.