Why the next project should be an Eve Pro Notebook


#21

Eve should keep the pen they have and offer it free of cost like in the V. However they should offer a premium pen with an eraser and 4096 pressure points like the Surface Pro pen for say $50-75 as an optional addon. Any accessories that are in high demand that can be added with relative ease and yield extra revenue for Eve should be pursued.

From my experience in China, if you offer to pay a higher price point for say a custom pen or any other item they are usually willing to lower MOQ requirements.


#22

Sure, very to the point argumentation.
It will surely diminish a lot of heat generated by the basic pen function limits.


#23

I haven’t been on the community in a couple weeks, but that ping by @Patrick_Hermawan got me interested in this topic.

I totally agree that the market is open in the detachable category. I got a Surface Book 2, and while I love it, there’s still room for improvement I believe Eve could provide.

What I love about the style (13.5" model):

  • The tablet portion contains a beautiful display and quad core processor while only a small portion (around 20% I think?) of the total battery, meaning it is about the same weight as the latest generation iPad while having a display twice as big (quite ideal for movies).
  • Reading is also effective because your hands don’t get as tired as they did with my old SP3.
  • The tablet is noticeably thinner than my SP3
  • Because most of the components are in the tablet, the base has so much room for battery that this thing lasts for 15 hours, easily.
  • Keeping the two hottest components separated is a wonder for thermal management (despite the fact that the CPU still throttles)

What I don’t love about this style:

  • The tablet has only a small portion of the total battery capacity. If I have my classes back to back for 4 hours straight (as I did last semester), the battery gets pretty low and I need to attach the base (which works seamlessly, I might add)
  • I worry about durability on this hinge. It’s much more complex than a type cover. Perhaps Eve could come up with something a little more pragmatic.
  • This is more just Microsoft’s problem, but there’s no TB3. Is that really a “safety feature”? I think not.

A few notes on Eve’s possible implementation:

  • In practical use, the 13.5" display is quite noticeably larger than 12.3". Extensive polling should be taken to ensure that anything bigger is justified. (For a detachable, any bigger seems pointless as far as using the tablet independently [imho, of course])
  • IMO, Microsoft’s biggest problem is a lack of durability, lack of TB3, and the coating for the magnesium shell being the most scratch prone paint on Earth. Eve rectified all of these with the V, and they can do it again with an “Eve Pro.” Combine those fixes with a 100Whr battery and a cooling system they’ve proven only Eve can provide, and I believe it would be a winner.

#24

Sorry been quite busy the last few days :slight_smile:

I wouldn’t say the V was pedestrian at all. First of all it was a product that was quite early to a rapidly growing new market (2 in 1s) and on top of that it had really good features, spotting a gap In that growing market, and to add to that it had a never before seen underlying ethos which was that it is community developed. We have to recreate that magic and it involves pushing the envelope further. I have no issues with a traditional laptop but in todays market a standard laptop won’t cut it even if it’s done rather well, just look at the latest macbooks or even the surface laptop. To add to that the competition has very good well established standard laptops with no obvious room for improvement…

In my view its not a good idea for Eve to make a standard laptop/notebook because from what I understand its not a growth market. The only two growing markets in the PC space are 2in1’s and gaming pcs (this is slightly old news but I assume its still the case). So if all that holds true then Eve has roughly three main routes it can take if it wants to make something that resembles a laptop that will have lots of momentum from the get go because of the growing market.

  • a gaming laptop
  • a 2 in 1 detachable
  • a 2 in 1 convertible

For the gaming laptop: this is a very competitive market with strong brand loyalty (its not a normal mass consumer market) , this will make it difficult to have a break out product in this market. Also because these are high end niche parts they will be hard to source in small quantities. The most pressing issue is that there is no obvious room for improvement like there was with the V competitors, not even on price because dell makes a very affordable powerful gaming laptop.

For the detachable: I think a surface book 2 competitor is an compelling proposition because there is significant room for improvement (as his is a very young form factor) but it would require greatly reworking the surface book formula. The battery ratio , a kickstand on the tablet, the keyboard options and more. I have some very cool ideas for this type of device and it could be awesome but the main issue with this design is that its very difficult to make.

For the convertible: I think a yoga 720, hp spectre x360 & dell Xps 13 2in1 competitor is also an extremely compelling proposition because I can see some obvious room for improvement that would make an Eve device a stand out competitor by radically changing the standard 360 convertible formula. Where this differs from the detachable is that it is (in theory) much easier to engineer and produce.

So id (predictably :slight_smile: ) vote for something like the convertible form factor I posted a while back

Also while the surfacebook competitor would be technologically impressive I think consumer appetite leans rather heavily towards a convertible, at least from what ive seen in the uk.


#25

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12207/intel-with-radeon-rx-vega-graphics-core-i78809g-with-31-ghz-base-100w-target-tdp-overclockable

Would this be a good Option for this Produkt?


#26

It’s interesting that this package contains the latest Vega GPU architecture from AMD. But the CPU is likely to be Kaby Lake, instead of the latest Coffee Lake iteration.

To answer your (rhetorical) question: Yes, if the next device performance and target TDP is in the region of 100W (45W CPU + 55-75W GPU).

With 100W TDP the size and weight of the device are going to be pretty big due to the cooling system and battery size.

Better probably to stick to something like 15W CPU and performancewise suitable GPU, if any. With optimised design, it’s possible to eke a lot of performance out of these 15W CPUs.

Provided of course, that we are talking about a portable device. For desktop devices it’s a totally different ballgame.


#27

just out of curiosity what kind of laptop would people want to see? lets assume that all devices types with the same screen size have similar performance:

12" = intel core y
13.5" - intel core u
15" intel core u quad core + 1050/60 gpu

  • 12 inch MacBook competitor laptop
  • 12 inch MacBook competitor convertible
  • 13.5 inch surface laptop/ MacBook pro competitor laptop
  • 13.5 inch HP x360 competitor convertible
  • 13.5 inch surface book competitor detachable
  • 15 inch razer /MacBook pro competitor laptop
  • 15 inch convertible
  • 15 inch surface book competitor detachable

0 voters


#28

Then again most ‘gaming’ devices nowadays go with a 45W CPU and a 60ish W GPU.

@Attiq I might be a bit biased for the poll you made due to me obviously wanting an Eve Pro :slight_smile:
I think a 1060 might be overkill for a more pro-oriented device and I’m thus leaning more towards a 1050/Ti but in general a professional notebook is I think the way to go - obviously Eve should then have a proper B2B path set up at that point because business customers are (hopefully) going to want Eve Pros over other devices :smiley:


#29

interesting, any specific reason why people want a normal 15" laptop as apposed to one with touch, convertible or detachable.

if you could get a convertible or even a detachable for the same price/size/power would you still want a standard laptop, or would you make the jump to 2 in 1?


#30

I don’t need the touch crap on a Laptop or a “pro” Device, same goes for detachable.

Add ravenridge to the poll aside of the Intel CPUs, it’s for a future Device and not for what available atm.


#31

I still doubt we will see them outside of Apple products.


#32

Using a larger body makes the price for cooling go down basically. I agree that the components might be more expensive but the engineering costs might go down. I don’t really have experience with this so I might be wrong though.

As for the laptop proposed in the OP, I’m not really convinced, it doesn’t seem to offer anything. I’d love to see a windows laptop with the trackpad of the macbook and/or the old keyboard of the macbook. Also the speaker of the macbook are pretty good for it’s size (most other laptops I’ve tried have meh speakers).

I recently bought the Gigabyte Aero 15 for my girlfriend. It’s a damn good laptop! Big battery, good keys (although i dislike the lay-out). It has a numpad which reduces the space for speakers which are meh, and the trackpad is meh. But besides that it’s an amazing thing… Basically what is described in the OP to be honest. And it has international warranty coverage, so it can ask a little more.


#33

I am a bit worried about 15", I have no issues with the size or anything. its just that the 15" market seems a lot smaller ( it may not be) than the 13.5-14" market and seems to be mainly business professionals who are very particular about support and device longevity ( and rightful so). but this is risky for eve because they aren’t an established company which means a lot of business/pro customers may be nervous about risking $2000+ and if they start returning devices it could ruin Eve

13.5 on the other hand seems a lot ‘safer’ because its regular customers and wider less nitpicky market.

I wouldn’t mind eve making either 13.5 or 15 personally but 15inch seems far more riskier in my opinion.


#34

I think @Attiq did a thread a little while back that (in my opinion) nailed the ‘Eve Pro’ concept squarely on the head:

It meets a few of the criteria that people want in this thread:

  • It meets the PC growth areas (2-in-1s and gaming PCs), as you could fit a GPU in there and have it as a Surface-Book-like device.
  • It competes with the Surface Book, which, to date, has nothing remotely similar. This is particularly fun, I think, as the V competes with the Surface Pro, and makes Eve a ‘improving on Microsoft’s reference designs’ company
  • This particular design has a few advantages over the Surface Book (no gappy-hinge) and ‘typical’ 360 design (no daft exposed keyboard).
  • I also think sticking to touch-enabled tablet-like PCs is a good move for Eve’s next product - why waste all the experience we’ve gained by moving to a completely different product type. Better to build on your strengths, eh?

#35

yeah in my mind we either do a convertible which would appease both laptop lovers and those who want some tablet functionality

or we do a detachable like the surface book which is mainly a tablet but also a good laptop.


#36

There are several drawbacks of 2-in-1 form factor:

  • Usually its uglier when used as a laptop, as the hinge couldnt be well hidden like it is on a traditional laptop
  • In case of detachable, its top heavy
  • Performance might be affected since skin temperature is now a consideration
  • Trickier, and in most cases, uglier placement of vents and cooling system in general
  • Added cost and complexity
  • May be less repairable (esp for detachable)
  • Possibility to have no touchscreen, which means cheaper, thinner, with longer battery life (not sure about this), but more importantly the possibility to have matte display

Note that my form factor of choice is detachable (in fact I want the V to have solid keyboard ala SB), but just to give you some idea why


#37

13.5 inch surface laptop/ MacBook pro competitor laptop is what I voted;
13.5 inch HP x360 competitor convertible 13.5 inch surface book competitor is what was registered.
???


#38

That’s Weird, it’s a conspiracy I tell you haha.

Try revoting click hide results


#39

tried it, did not change = conspiracied alt fake issue :thinking:


#40

Works for me:)
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