Why the next project should be an Eve Pro Notebook


#1

Hiya there!

Seems like you are interested in a potential notebook by Eve?
Well, I had a lot of time in the recent days (due to taking time off and spending that researching the internals of notebooks for example - haha! Take that time off! :smiley: )
And I recalled some topic from @vithren that also motivated me to do this! :smiley: So, let’s talk about how this could be amazing! :smiley:

I personally see one way for the next Eve device: A Notebook.
Reasons: Eve already has the experience and connections for a device of that category. If we went with something different, like a smartphone we’d need completely new connections in a huge area.
The main crowd we have here right now also has a good knowledge of the PC technology - so extra points for that.

Now where to go with that device? There are many roads we can go - but I say go for a premium worker
Reasons: The current ‘gaming’ market is pushing lower and lower down - HQ CPUs bundled with a 1050Ti that makes no sense as the CPU should not bottleneck the GPU in that case. The average joe that is looking for a device goes for the prize, not the premium. But in the market for work-devices (that can also be used for lighter gaming) there’s a place that’s open. Someone can crash in there and make a premium device that blows the lid open.

Now that we cleared why we want a premium worker, let’s talk about the sweet stuff - hardware! :3

Size: I’d suggest going with 14-15". 13 seems nice, but it’s damn close to the V and should serve 2 factors: a) differentiate the Pro from the V and b) offer an option for people that want a bigger device than 12.3"

Screen: Due to the already existing connections with Sharp, I’m all for going with one of the best reasonable panels available. Meaning: Screw 4k, let’s go for amazing colors & brightness! I mean - if Sharp can give a great 4k panel (that does not increase the price to 2k for the entry model) then let’s go for it, but don’t chase the pixels - chase the quality.
Oh, also Matte screen would be amazing :smiley:

CPU: Let’s stay reasonable here - 15W BUT let’s go with a Kaby Lake R/Zen CPU that has 4 physical cores and can provide 8 with HT! Oh, and also maybe an option to increase the TDP pretty please? Something like 25W should suffice to give the CPU all the turbo it wants but still be coolable.
Because that’s the only advantage the HQ CPUs have in my mind - higher TDP.

GPU: Again, reasonable - 60W maybe? So, something like a 1050/1050 Ti or AMD equivalent for a good power push for whatever GPU-intense task might be needed but don’t go the gaming route and put a 1060/1070/1080 in there and let’s keep it reasonable (and cool + silent!)
Or maybe a MX150 if we don’t care much about graphics, but a dGPU for sure!

Cooling: Something like this has to be cooled as well, right? After long checking other devices on the market I came to the conclusion that a dual-fan cooling with shared heatpipes between GPU & CPU should deliver the best cooling - and should be able to stay reasonably quiet & cool! (And I did my work on that - a 3 page document just listing base facts & checking various existing devices over multiple hours)
Also, hand-tuned fan-curves for the different fan-modes would be a nice bonus (see under unique features for that)

Storage: SSD only. The prices of SSDs are slowly falling and without a 2.5" slot for an HDD we can have a second M.2 slot (possibly only SATA?) but use the extra space for battery or sweet hardware features!

Keyboard: Take something like the old MacBook keyboards (before they went super-flat) or even better a ThinkPad and put that in there! Numpad optional in my mind - but keep the backlighting!

Trackpad: Simply said: The best we can get. Let’s be frank we can’t rival the current Apple Trackpads but let’s get as close as possible!

Speakers: 2 with a (small) subwoofer? I don’t know much about sound so I want other opinions there :smiley:

Camera: Something reasonable - 5MP front for a clear skype quality! Oh, and Windows Hello capable :slight_smile:

Microphones: I think the V showed that we can have a damn nice sound quality - and since an Eve Pro would be a work device let’s go with great microphones again!

Touch: I see the use-case for touch in the screen if it does not add too much bulk/price. Wanted to tap on my notebook recently when I unearthed it for some more heavy gaming and recalled that I should maybe NOT tap that.

Battery: Put in as much as reasonable. 80Wh or more? Sure! Because I propose skipping on the 2.5" drive something like this would be easily possible. Maybe even more?

Ports: Simple in my mind:

  • 2 TB3 (one on each side)
  • 2 USB-A (one on each side)
  • Potential 3rd USB-A with ‘always on’ power for charging a device
  • HDMI
  • microSD
  • 3.5mm jack.
  • No Ethernet in my mind because with a good WiFi solution there is no good reason in my mind to go with a cable.

Wireless: Top-Notch just like in the V. (Gosh, I did not realize I can get my WiFi in the BASEMENT with the V :smiley: ) Meaning Ac-WiFi and BT 5.0 and whatever is recent there :slight_smile:

Windows Hello: Infrared Camera or Fingerprint - one of those 2 :slight_smile:

Unique Features: The gooood stuff in my mind that makes an Eve Pro stand out!

  • USB-PD: Because f proprietary chargers - charge via USB-PD if it has at least 15V output and worst case throttle the performance if it’s only 30W. I think just like the MBPro we’d need a nearly 100W charger however.

  • Fan-Modes: How about a ‘Silent’, ‘Regular’ and ‘Performance’ mode? Silent for presentation where you don’t want to hear a fan spin up even once, Regular for your day-to-day usage where if you push it you can hear it. and performance with increased TDP when you don’t mind the sound.

  • Battery-Light: Just like in the old macs - a button and a LED that shows your battery level with e.g. a number of blinks. Red blink? No good. 2 yellow blinks? Half full!

  • Partially soldered RAM: Wait, that as a feature? Yep, hear me out: Go with e.g. 8GB on every Eve Pro and allow for the installation of a RAM stick that can expand your Eve Pro up to 24 GB RAM (with a 16GB stick). Also nice to have more space for more battery (and other hardware features like cooling).

  • Access hatch: For the SSDs/RAM. Just a nice to have so you don’t void warranty when upgrading the SSD/RAM. And also nowadays a feature in many devices :stuck_out_tongue:

And now take all of this, put it into a nice aluminum package with a wonderful screen with good resolution & brightness / colors. 90Wh battery. An i5 with 8GB of RAM. 128GB SSD. A free RAM & SSD slot to upgrade. A GTX 1050 (Ti?).
All of this for a reasonable pricetag. Like around 999$
mic drop

I might sketch up some drafts for how to put all of this in a 14-15" device later if people are interested in the idea :smiley:

Thanks for reading!

If you’ve got some ideas on how to improve this (or further unique features) please post them here! :smiley:


Why the next project should be an Eve 10" Snapdragon tablet
#2

Honored to be of some help! I’ll read it bit later and respond properly. All in all, I’m still all in for EVE notebook… even if now I think a little better serviceability would be useful. : )


#3

One thing that just didn’t exist and that I would love to buy:

  • 14" to 15" display
  • Very bright, >500 nits, better 700 nits like new HP 1020 G2
  • No dedicated graphics that adds power consumption and takes up space, as a programmer I don’t need that
  • Big battery, use all the space for battery
  • In other words: technique of a good 13 inch device in a larger shell without all that bonus that all manufacturers put into bigger laptops (so no CPU with higher TDP, no extra graphics)

#4

What would then speak against the proposed eve pro I suggested?
I’m a coder myself and Nvidia Optimus does switch off the dGpu if it’s not used thus not using extra power.
As for battery: I proposed 80 Wh but I’d like it to go to as close to 100 as possible because that’s the maximum the TSA allows for airplane usage
Did you read my proposal? Because your post does not really read like it - please do because I think that your perspective would help make the idea even cooler :smiley:


#5

It’s gonna be hard to engineer this notebook


#6

Which one? The op’s notebook is fairly standard. Perhaps even a bit too pedestrian. It’s essentially a razer blade 14"


#7

Sorry for my ignorance in the ever competing marketing teams of larger corporations, but can anyone explain to me the difference between a laptop and a notebook? Is one just thinner than the other? And why is Ultra-book a term that needs differentiation from either of them?

I just wonder because the OP seems to be contradicting the linked post by saying a notebook is a better direction than a laptop, but in my mind I always think of “notebook” as meaning “thin laptop”.


#8

Reminds me of this thread that I made earlier this year Choosing the ultimate 2 kg laptop, not saying what OP wrote is unimpressive, but it might not offer enough USP (other than price) to most consumers compared to those alternatives


#9

Laptop and Notebook are the same thing I think.

For a notebook to be an ultrabook the requirements are that it has to be less than 1.5cm thick and weights less than 2kg


#10

I believe previously the naming convention followed size here, where some laptops we’re 17" and heavy, and notebooks we’re a bit smaller and more portable, and netbooks we’re tiny and only good for web browsing.

Isn’t there a some kind of power component to the Ultrabook? They have to be small and powerful right?


#11

The Eve V m3/128 is priced at $959. Meanwhile, this product at just $40 more should offer:

  • Similar premium aluminum chassis
  • 50% larger screen
  • Almost 2x the battery
  • Cooling solution with at least 4x the heat dissipation capacity
  • A mini subwoofer
  • Twice the CPU cores
  • GTX 1050

I personally find it very challenging to fit all that in $40. No offense


#12

Can you maybe share some ideas how to maybe out in a tad more uniqueness?
Also we should not forget that the V is also ‘pedestrian’ but does simply do everything the competition does nearly as well or even better and pushes through the price.

Well the 999$ are just a reference point I arbitrarily chose because it sounded good.
Housing should not be that much more expensive.
Screen size does not 1:1 correlate with prize
Cooling does also not scale in that way.
Also the removal of the pen & keyboard as extra components frees up a bit of $ for the suggested features :slight_smile:

I believe that an Eve Pro would go a similar path like the V - premium performance & feature for less than the competition. :smiley:


#13

I’m readin’ this thing of yours and, to be honest, I don’t have much to add. It’s a solid proposal and while we could talk about moving the targets a bit one way or the other - I like the general picture. : )

Exactly. From where I’m standing I would point straight to 15 inch. Like your wrote, things lower are super close to V.

A good way to keep people happy. People and their wallets. And the quality high.

<3

The only thing I may have something substantial to say : D I wonder what are the numbers for people that actually do something with their hardware like that. I mean, I’m all for combustibility custom thingies, but I would prefer to get the cooling and throttling right from the get go more than changeable TDP.

I wonder how the market will move in the next year. Because I assume the next project could start in 2018 and end in 2019, Q1, maybe. By then, we could get a next generation of GPUs. Huh. Wonder where the river will take us.

Could you share it, maybe? : ) Sounds like something I wanted to do for the longest time and never… well, I’m lazy. That’s the hard truth.

Yeah. I though about it from my proposal, ale really, HDD just takes space we could certainly use.

I was wondering about that. I understand that camera modules are expensive/that the software is crap. I was thinking, though, that maybe EVE could make a USP from it - from front camera that’s simply good. Wonder where the problems for that are? Take a module from mobile world, put it into our chassis - I guess drivers? Software?
Recently I bough a first good webcam in my life, Logitech C922. It’s pretty amazing without any tweaking. There’s no software needed. The skype quality is just great. So, I understand that Eve is 100 times smaller than Logitech… but that quality is there and I’m interested in what it takes to get it.

Nooo ; ( But it’s so fast… and handy… you monster.

OR, huh? Why not both? Expensive?

Yeah. I think next thing from Eve could make things like that better than in V. I have no idea if the bloody thing is charging or not. : D
But I will say that’s super important to have the LEDs of proper brightness.

I was wondering about the accessibility of the hardware. Maybe going with “expose all things to the user” would be okay. Maybe not. It’s interesring.

Yeah. I think one good package that can be upgraded in shop is the way to go. A middle of the road for starters, but you can get higher… for a price.


#14

From the discussion with Jamil and Spence on the other thread, it seems that they both are a big fan of the detachable (Surface Book) form factor for this Eve Pro notebook. I totally agree with that argument, as there is a total lack of competition there. However, thats simply not the case with traditional laptop or 360 laptop, with OEMs are all pushing the envelope on those form factors almost every other weeks. Therefore, Id like to see on which form factor that you could tolerate for the Eve Pro notebook, assuming every OEM could match the performance specification (screen, CPU, GPU, battery life, etc.) tit-for-tat on their existing products.

Which form factor would be a DEAL BREAKER to you in this product?

  • No Touchscreen
  • Traditional
  • 360
  • Detachable

0 voters

Traditional: CPU, RAM, GPU below the keyboard, hinge rotates up to 135-180 degrees. Example: MacBook.
360: CPU, RAM, GPU below the keyboard, hinge rotates up to 360 degrees. Example: Lenovo Yoga.
Detachable: CPU and RAM behind the display, GPU could be below the keyboard, hinge rotation is irrelevant. Example: Surface Book.


#15

A dealbreaker meaning that “x” form factor would make me buy the product or avoid it?


#16

Avoid.

Basically you dont want to buy that product if it has that form factor that you voted. Dont want to buy = No deal (broken deal). Thats where the word comes from :slight_smile:


#17

Right.

I think this poll is skewed against a particular type of product, to be honest. I voted “detachable”, because I’m not interested in it and probably wont be soon, with my V, but “touchscreen” is not a form factor, “traditional” is a “default” form factor, and 360 can coexist with traditional and touchscreen.

I understand that you want this to have some USP and I agree that a particular angle should be in there from the first day and extend beyond the mere specification or price - I don’t think this pool addresses this.


#18

Im trying a different approach this time around. I think there were some issues with the polls before, no offense, that let the “oops!” key in the final product. As far as I know, having a normal backspace key wouldnt be a dealbreaker to anyone, but having an “oops!” would be a dealbreaker to some. That was my main motivation to use dealbreaker instead of the more simplistic “what do you want?”


#19

Made my list just for fun :yum:

  • 6 cores 8700HQ/8820HK or bust

  • For the graphics card I would say the GTX 1050 equivalent in the next generation for a base model. GTX 1060 equivalent for performance.

  • If it’s a 360 or detachable design, keep the pen. If it’s traditional, remove it

  • 8, 16 or 32Gb of ram.

Price for a 8700HQ, GTX 1050, 8Gb of ram laptop with 360 design: 1299USD
Price for a 8820HK, GTX 1060, 16Gb of ram laptop with 360 design: 1799USD


#20

Very good -more than fun- proposal. Needs a no problem pen though.