Why egpus suck and eve should stay away for now or change the game


#1

I love the concept of an egpu being able to go to school or work and have a thin and light then coming home and having similar to desktop performance so much so that I actually bought one but their are a few things that just are not working right know for this

  1. Thunderbolt 3
    Thunderbolt 3 in my opinion is one of the things that is killing egpus The problem is that you are just not getting the performance needed to run a gpu it turns a 1080 into a 1070 a 1070 into a 1060 and just burns your money
  2. Prices
    egpu are very expensive they cost anywhere from 300 dollars to 650 dollars and that is just the enclosure then you have to buy a gpu which currently because of gpu pricing from mining would most likely be a 1080 then you end up with a setup that costs so much might as well just buy a desktop and get better performance.
  3. Laptop cpus
    Laptop cpus are not powerful enough to game or do video editing with a 1080 or 1070 or 1060 i am not talking about the HQ series I am talking about the U series because the U series is what will make egpus take of because they typically do not have gpu where as HQ laptops usually do, have a gpu making egpus an even worse deal because you with then be spending your money on two gpus in stead of one. Then also hq laptops tend to be more bulky and the whole point of an egpu is that you have a thin and light and a desktop in one setup and having an bulky laptop and desktop like performance is less appealing to most people. The U series will be getting 4 cores in coffee lake but we will have to see benchmarks to see if this helps enough to justify an egpu. away from egpus for now or if we dont we will have to address each of these problems to make an egpu worth it for most people

So when you put all of this together you get something that just isn’t worth the price which is why i think eve should stay away from egpus for now or if we dont we will have to address each of these problems to make an egpu worth it for most people.


#2

One question: WIN 10 Fall creators update will support VR/AR in a special new way. Nearly all Surface devices and eve V won’t run a AR headset (Microsoft app to check if your device is AR ready is out now)…
1.Can a extra (eve) egpu make V AR ready?
2. Is there a way to make all Surface devices AR ready with the same (eve) egpu or makes the missing tb3 port at Surface anything like that impossible…


#3

Not true… Please look up some benchmarks. If the CPU is not a bottleneck and you’re using an external screen, as well as a good eGPU enclosure without many other things connected to it, the performance difference from a desktop with the same graphics card in gaming will be about 5-10% (measured in fps). That isn’t much, considering the fact that you don’t need to buy a whole desktop and you can switch to tablet mode right away.

And that’s exactly why we need someone (poking Eve) to step in. They don’t have to be so expensive. Even with $300 price tag, it’s already cheaper than building a whole desktop PC (without graphics card, for fair comparison).

That is also false… Not everyone needs the latest and greatest games. But even so, I just recently upgraded my i3-2100 and it was still capable of running all the games I threw at it above 40fps. That is enough for me. I ran most of them on low settings because I don’t care about graphics enough to buy a really expensive graphics card, but I was too lazy to find out whether my CPU or GPU was bottlenecking them. the GPU is GTX660 if you’re wondering, and in case of eGPU I would be buying a 1050 or reusing the card I already have. That is enough for gaming. Not all the games in the world with high settings of course, but I’m yet to find a game that wouldn’t run above 30fps on low settings. Only a couple were below 40fps. And Eve V processor is equal to 2100 in pure performance.


#4

I have to reiterate what pauliunas already said. The bottlebeck is related to the data not just going towards the eGPU but then backward to the laptop in order for data to be sent to the display. Once you take out the second part (data having to go back), both latency and overall frame-rate improve consistently putting eGPU nearly on-par with their internal versions. Anyway, there’s a threshold and a 1060 won’t turn into a 1050 (it will instead keep going as fast as a regular 1060)… and a 1060 is still a pretty darn good card to me!

That is also not entirely true. While “some” modern games can exploit 4 CPU cores, most games do not and won’t for a while, as there are many dual-core processors around.
What provides the best advantage is higher clock and U-class CPUs are not that far away from their desktop counterparts.
Apart from that, the CPU does not affect frame-rate as severely as the GPU does, so even with lower-end CPUs you can easily keep a game well above reasonable frame rates.

I agree with the conclusion, but not with the reasoning behind it.

In the end, whether Eve should or should not embark in an eGPU, should only be a matter of how much market there is… and to be honest even though I would like an affordable eGPU I don’t think there’s enough market to justify the venture. Still, this is empirical knowledge not backed by facts. Whether I’m right or not, it would have to be demonstrated with data.


#5

one i have researched this quite a bit and i know that if you use an external screen it will make performance better but as you said you are still loosing 5 to 10 percent plus you already bought a screen it is on your laptop i dont want to have to buy another one if i already have one

two i said that there are places for a new egpu in the conclusion and yes if we were to make one in the sub 200 area then it would be pretty good and it might be worth it for some people

three not every one is a gamer their are video editors and others who could use a good gpu but also need a good cpu and the cpu should be bottle necking the 1080 1070 and 1060 in most modern games as you can see here with a bottle neck test using Pentium g4560 which has extremely similar performance to 7500U


#6

As I said, stop looking at the extremes.There are al sorts of people. Gamers that play on ultra settings and for whom the CPU would be a bottleneck are a small minority. Professional video editors are another small minority. Just look at laptops with GTX950M, they’re selling so well… There are so many users for whom that performance is enough. And I bet most of them would like a thinner laptop if they could get one while still having a decent GPU, so why not give them the possibility?

Oh, and whether the CPU is a bottleneck depends a lot on the game that you want to play. Some games can run fine on a Pentium. And anyway, buying an eGPU does not necessarily mean you’ll put a 1080 in there.


#7

Maybe it isn’t worth the price to you, but that depends mostly on your personal style as a user. I don’t expect the best gaming performance in the world from an eGPU setup, but I don’t need or want a setup for ultra quality 4K gaming. For me the entry price is worth it since I only need a gpu for casual gaming in the 15% of the time that I’m not on the road. Buying a desktop for home wouldn’t be worth the price for me.


#8

i am pretty sure that if you are a gamer who is on that budget the egpu enclosure would have to cost like 50 dollars which would be great if we could do it but it would be hard so yes if you were trying to design a egpu for less the 70 dollars that would be wonderful but i dont see that happening with the resources we have right now


#9

What “that budget”? I just buy what is sufficient to me. I don’t buy more expensive parts just because I can. I don’t need them. I can imagine paying $200 for an eGPU pretty easily if I hadn’t literally just upgraded my desktop… It’s still much cheaper than building a desktop, even if that desktop has some Pentium crap :slight_smile: things like PSU, RAM, motherboard make up for $100 already, and then you need a hard drive, an enclosure and a CPU for another $50… It’s really hard to squeeze into such budget, even if you’re looking at cheapest of the crappiest parts in the world. So a $200 eGPU is cheaper. And this is not that hard to do, considering that there are already $300 options and that Eve cuts cost by their business model.


#10

Final i see what you are saying and it makes sense so my question now is how cheap do you think we could get it i have one idea for a design i will try to 3d model it but what do you think we should do


#11

I’m seeing a lot of prices for an ‘eGPU’ being thrown around, are these for just the enclosure, or the enclosure + graphics card? What’s a reasonable price for just the enclosure?


#12

just enclosure yeah it is not the best name egpu because it doesnt really say what it is


#13

do you think that our next project should be an laptop that is designed for egpus and an egpu if we do this then we can ty to make as full of an experiance as possible or should we just make an egpu or another computer


#14

You know I actually think a gaming laptop would be a good idea for a second product. Gamers are usually more willing to take a leap of faith with other brands if they are highly rated and have higher performance. It could be a great opportunity for a disruptive product from Eve. Just super cool it and give it a great screen and somehow have better than average portability and battery life.


#15

Or simply not design it like a teenage gamers wet dream but like something you could take to a business meeting. “Wolf in disguise as a sheep” thing.
But let’s get back on topic with eGPUs. I would love for Eve to produce one but I think they mentioned somewhere that it’s currently not feasible for them.
Since this is a rather new piece of tech I suspect it will become affordable rather quickly anyway. Recently a combo with a 1060 was released for a more reasonable price already. Was it gigabyte? Aorus?


#16

I think you’re talking about this. Considering the price of a GTX 1070, the case costs around 120 to 170 USD.

Screenshot_5


#17

We already have a laptop for eGPUs: it’s called Eve V :slight_smile: They included Thunderbolt mainly for this purpose, so it would not be nice to wait around and only release eGPU after another computer. It’s like betraying some V users.

As for what an eGPU should look like, here’s my idea:

@ToiletSheep they didn’t say it wasn’t feasible, they just said the case was expensive. There is a link in my thread :slight_smile:


#19

the v is an all around 2 in 1 i mean specially design a laptop for an egpu which could make more profit because no has really done it well yet and 2 things that complement each other can be really compelling if done right


#20

Can anyone answer this?
Is there anyway to make the V or any surface AR ready, lets say for the ACER mixed reality headset?
What would be neaded? and egpu? what more?


#21

Not feasible as in too expensive so they offer neither a price bonus or a product which is somehow significantly better :stuck_out_tongue: