Welcome New Surface Pro


#62

You know that the new surface uses a Kaby Lake U CPU? If you want to compare look at the difference between skylake u and m7 CPU. I expect about the same difference between two kabylake CPUs.


#63

That’s why I said:

If I didn’t know, I would have said ours is definitely better. Because it is better than Skylake U.


#64

If you compare the two skylake you have a difference between 15-20%. Hope the kabylake has the same.


#65

Please read this again:

Since we’re better than Skylake U, the difference is smaller. And with each generation the difference between U and Y gets smaller anyway. 5th gen Core M was a joke, it was so much worse than U. In 7th gen, they’re almost the same.


#66

I like how you not even trying. I said you should compare the skylake m7 with the u und you write that our 7th generation beats the 6th generation. I compared two 6th generation and have the hope that the two 7th generation have about the same difference between them.

Maybe it gets smaller. Bit why is there then still a gap between desktop CPU and mobiles like y and u? Because in the same generation you could not get the same power with different tpw. It’s like hp on a car.


#67

Let’s wait and see. I go with Hawk Hunter when he says you have to compare the both of them directly. The ‘Surface Killer’ now have to be measured with the latest model of course, because it’s out BEFORE the very first V will reach any customer I guess. One can certainly be sure the the processor setting in the surface will be great. So the two items have to be compared directely. And I’m quite sure that the gap between the Surface 4 and the new Surface in comparison to our V will melt anyway. Also in my opinion one has to compare the two items with the standard TDP.


#68

You “hope” but you’re not right. The difference is obviously decreasing with each generation.

And if you still don’t get it, the performance is like this:

Skylake-Y < Skylake-U < Kabylake-Y < Kabylake-U

The difference between Skylake and Kabylake U is 10-15% and our processor is in the middle. That makes 5%.

Higher HP doesn’t always mean higher speed or whatever. I don’t know sh** about cars. But with lower TDP you can get the same performance by not wasting the power. U series processors waste their performance by staying at turbo boost frequency for too long, and Y series is way more dynamic than that so it achieves almost the same performance with lower TDP.


#69

I am not getting you wrong, trust me. :slight_smile: What you are saying about prices is however incorrect. As @fanoftech4life and @SyrtakiVampir explained already, you are comparing prices before taxes (typically the ones advertised in USD) with final prices a customer actually pays (which include VAT). What you are calling “converting the price in Euro”, it’s not what EU customers pay! (I wish it could be like that :wink: )

For the m3 models

Prices in USD (before taxes)

  • Eve-V - with keyboard and pen included :
    $699 (Hyper Early Bird) / $708 (Early Bird), +$20 local keyboard = $719 / 728
  • Surface Pro (2017) - no keyboard and pen included :
    $799 (adding keyboard and pen +$99 +$169 = $1067, :frowning:)

Prices after shipping / VAT are included (= real price tags in Euro, in EU countries):

  • Eve-V - with keyboard and pen included:
    $719/728 + $119 (shipping + taxes) = $858 / $867 (Hyper Early Bird / Early Bird); therefore, considering a very safe 1.06 EUR/USD exchange rate (it’s even higher now, compared to IGG campaign rates…), you get the figure you and I paid, around € 818.
  • Surface Pro (2017) - no keyboard and pen included :
    can fluctuate a bit depending on the national VAT… In Italy, VAT it’s on high side of the spectrum, 22%, and final price will be €959 (link)
    Even buying the cheaper SP4 pen, final price with pen + keyboard will be well over €1100 , probably more near €1200,00.

Therefore the +119 Euro in shipping/tax are NOT expensive at all for a EU customer! Actually, for a EU customer it’s like saving quite a lot on VAT, plus getting shipping for free, just like for a Surface Pro! :slight_smile: (At the time, I also wondered if this is actually legal :fearful: ).
All in all, you and me did not pay anything more, let alone “100 Euro more”, to buy the V m3 compared to Surface Pro. We actually paid around 300 Euro less.

It’s really the other way around, they can’t beat the Eve price! :slight_smile:

Other things to consider:

  • After a few weeks from general availability, Surface Pro will be available from other vendors (other than official MS store) at lower price tags… Still it will take at least a few months before the lowest price of the SP comes near the Eve-V price tag.
  • One advantage of the Surface Pro could be for businesses, which can retrieve the VAT from their invoices (Eve invoice for the V won’t have a specific VAT applied, to my understanding; whereas of course any MS store can produce a regular invoice). This does not apply to normal customers, anyway.
  • Eve already said official prices of the V will be higher than those of the IGG campaign, therefore the price advantage compared to SP(2017) for the m3 model will be reduced. It was around €300 at IGG price tags vs MS full price tag for SP(2017), when considering the base m3 model. Of course everyone wish is that it could stay like that, but Eve needs profits to continue their journey with new projects.

#70

Right now you could claim whatever you want. I’ve seen no evidence so far from you. I said I hope it will be so and right now I sit here and wait for some benchmarks. Right now I didn’t even find a explicit model number of the CPU that is in the surface. There are two i7 with 640 iris grafics. Like mentioned I am curious if the V will stay the surface killer announced or if it only upsides would be the more ports and the maybe better price. That to say is by now not clear to which price the V would be sold. Just guessing and no proof.


#71

I am with @pauliunas there. Eve is stating USB 3.1 Gen 1 which is basically USB 3.0, only Gen 2 supports the higher speed. Hence, now most of the manufacturers use that term so it should be OK in that sense. But if you compare the V to - let’s say the Surface Pro - you should be clear. Microsoft states USB 3.0 the V ist not better with 3.1 Gen 1 because that is exactly the same thing.


#72

Let’s see what the exact difference for the M3 Model will be. We will see the exact difference after eve will publish their prices and on the other hand the prices of the surface will be marketprices. I’m quite sure that the M3 model needs a ‘special treatment’ because of the reasons I wrote above.


#73

Maybe. Eve may also chose to leave the i/m3 model at a relatively high price point to encourage people to go for the i5.


#74

I think most manufacturers still use USB 3.0 name and agree that renaming it without actually changing the standard was plain retarded… (talking about the guys behind USB here, not Eve’s fault).


#75

You summed it up pretty well.
Here a screenshot of the German Microsoft store at a single glance for comparison (prices are nearly as in your link for Italy).

The official € retail price (in the MS store) of the new keyboard is 179,99 €, no one so far for the pen.

Pretty expensive… But luckily, we have a great alternative :wink:


#76

The E"V" is the new standard which Microsoft is trying to match. The Surface 5 would be the next generation and would have to be, imo, the opening for a whole new ballgame. It might be fun to speculate on the particulars of what that might be. It could also be a vision for the groups next project.


#77

To be honest - the two big things that I’m impressed by for the moment are:

  • U Series 7th Gen as apposed to Y. They made that decision presumably based on benchmarking/testing.
  • Battery life of 13 hours (we’ll see if that holds up to scrutiny).

Cost aside that interests me. Also having different colours of keyboards. That makes me happy.

No regrets - mainly because MS have been lazy on the last two and shoddy with the battery - so they lost my vote.

In a few years we’ll see where things are and maybe I’ll go back, maybe I wont.
But that U series with that proposed battery life…mmmm. Yummy.

Real world testing will be very interesting.


#78

If you read the fine print on the machines, all the surface machines excepting the 1 TB with a Core i7 use a slower SSD , which factors into performance. I just don’t understand how they could squeeze 13 hours out of a smaller battery with a more power hungry processor and a less efficient SSD and active cooling, the numbers just don’t add up.


#79

Ah you’re right. Good catch. I somehow glossed over the Generation 1 part on the spec list lol


#80

Yes. The Midwest, more specifically.


#81

Battery capacity:

Device Manager:





Benchmarks:



Photo gallery:

Short observations:

+49 Whr rated battery capacity! (Ignore the rated capacity in my screencap. It is erroneous since it is a preproduction model. The actual charged capacity shown reflects the correct rating. Lisa Gade, in her first look video below, confirmed this 49 Whr rated capacity.)
+The i5 model is 5 percent faster than the i7 model Surface Pro 4 and 20 percent faster than the i5 model Surface Pro 4!
+Even though the i5 model is completely fanless, I experienced no throttling even after dozens of consecutive benchmark runs!
+Subjectively, it feels much more solid in build and evenly distributed in weight than the Surface Pro 4!