Weekly Update 07.9


#106

Go try to place an order for a V. You won’t be able to pay for it unless you put forth a lot of effort. I don’t like that the website still gives the impression of availabilty and Sept shipping either. I think it’s utter bullshit and it’s one of the things I hate most about the current situation.

I simply think that they have a reason for it that none of us can see. I also think it’s absurd to think that anyone is getting snowballed into buying a V at this point. There’s enough discontent and people providing warning about the situation to prevent that. I doubt there are any orders actually being taken.

For the record, I’m not connected to Eve aside from being a community member and V owner.


#107

You are missing the point. Eve is responsible for the operation. I’m in business and if I took the same approach I would be out of business. Ultimately it is the owner who is responsible.

But, by your comments you have never been in business for yourself. Or taken responsibility for those you contract with. It is a business mature concept. And I failed to make sure the Eve leadership had done their due diligence.

I use a credit card processing company. And perhaps because it is US based I have never had a problem. I expected the same from a Northern European company like Eve. But sadly, they are not all they claim to be.


#108

Spending money on those things is pretty standard for start-ups. In addition, Eve isn’t the first company to use current income to pay for past expenses. Plenty of new companies have done that and used the momentum to gain investment. Also, every company that operates on money from a business loan does the same thing. Nobody seems to take exception to these practices when things go well though.

I don’t disagree with that. What I disagree with is the logic of calling Eve a liar and excusing the supplier of wrong doing. My take on it it that the supplier lied to Eve when they told them they could provide Grade 1 screens and then didn’t come thru. That makes the suppiler the liar. They misled Eve and created the situation. I just don’t see how Eve can be called the dishoneat party there. They took every action they could to fix things, including giving the 1st screen supplier a chance to come through. That’s being the the bigger man. They tried to do right by there customers while giving the supplier a chance to right its wrongs. Maybe the screen supplier got some bad materials or someone in QC just did a shit job and lots of bad screens got through before their supervisor realized what was going on.

It’s been pretty well covered that that’s what happened.


#109

I don’t disagree with any of that in principle and I work for a business that operates that way. We even give vouchers for another visit if the weather shuts us down for the day. We have ZERO control over the weather so yes, we take responsibility for those we contract with. We’ve been in business for 50+ years though. We have the experience to avoid a lot of traps and the resources absord the ones we don’t. We can go to the bank and get loans with no issues if we need them. Start-ups don’t have that ability unless they have major financial backing that far exceeds their costs of initially entering the market.

I use US based CC processors too. We’ve switched several times over the years due to problems such as hidden fee increases and poor customer service. However, I actually made the decision to ride out the initial US EMV launch storm with our current processor who has been bought up twice since we switched to them. They didn’t staff up properly and support went down the drain. It took me 3+ months to get 7 countertop CC terminals added to our account. It was painful but it was worth it in the end because we believed that things would get better and we knew it would be hard to find another processor who would provide what we needed.


#110

Your post is exactly my point. You do the research first. Plan for the unknowns and move forward. I bet you have a tracking method that started from the very beginning. Eve does not seem to have that basic system in place. Or they are not revealing it.

Regardless, customers how have placed an order ought to have been provided better information than estimated shipping dates. Such as: where is ther order in the development chain? What is the assembly date? When and where will the product be shipped? Who is the shipping carrier? These are fundamental questions.

The lack of answers is the responsibility of the leader of the company. No matter how unfair it may seem.

It sounds like the company you work for understands those concepts. I just start a new company in July this year. I made sure I had all the agreements, suppliers, and processes set before I opened for customers. I expect problems. And I expect I need to be honest with my customers too.


#111

I don’t think I could say it better^


#112

Eve’s weekly update tomorrow will probably make me choose between waiting or going for something…probably a Microsoft product.

Please, please be something solid Eve! I really don’t want to jump ship


#113

I never suggested they halt sales, just that they give an honest estimate to potential new customers about when they can expect to receive the product if they buy it. Are you genuinely saying that you have no issue with misleading new customers in this way?

To be frank, I think a lot of us can see the reason.

Not everyone is going to read the forum. I just googled ‘eve v review’ and the first page contains reviews of the product they are broadly favourable - some mention that there have been delays in shipping (but generally with a response from Eve saying they are working hard to address those issues). There’s no mention of the scale and scope of delays experienced by people on this forum. Prospective customers shouldn’t have to be part of this forum to get honest information, and Eve continuing to advertise an estimated shipping date that they know for a fact they cannot honor is absolutely an indicator of bad faith and (imo) bad intentions.


#114

My Grandfather thought me that two left turns do not make one right turn.


#115

No, I hate it. I’m just giving them the benefit of the doubt because it’s really hard to actually buy a V and I doubt that anyone who does is really being misled. By the time they manage to make the purchase I suspect that they know what they’re in for.

I think we all see a reason that we believe is behind it but we don’t actually know for sure what Eve’s reason is.


#116

Selectively picking out a few words from a complete sentence to misrepresent what I actually said. Did you attend the same PR school as Trump?

You keep harking on about the screen supplier being to blame. Lets take it this way, Eve knew 100% that the screen supplier screwed them. So why then did they not then find another supplier for the very same screen that the whole V was designed around.

How about the cockup with doing absolutely no QC on the re-machined V frames which led to considerable delays for many of the HEB’s and EB’s.

You forget that some of us know without a doubt that we have been lied to again and again, and that new customers are being lied to again. So for those of us that know this and accept this as fact, we feel obligated to forewarn others before they are hoodwinked too. It’s very easy to be a Fanboy/Girl when you received a V.

As I said if there is an investor then Eve does not need our money to fix the problems, do they now.

It’s pretty convenient and a coincidence for Eve how you manage to parachute into many forum topics just as the topics are gathering momentum in their criticism of Eve and their business practices. So to say you are not connected to Eve is disingenuous to say the least, you may not work for them, but you do know them, as in personally. Does Seattle ring any bells. Opps! have we outed you. My apologies.

Now lets be very clear here. We paid for something. There are very real consumer laws in relating to delivering what was paid for and delivering said item within a reasonable time-frame. There are also very strict consumer laws in relation to false advertising, the shipping estimates currently on the Eve Tech website. I can go on and on, but it is obvious you are one of those people who is unable to accept any other truth other than your own.

It is not like most of us started out feeling as we do now. While the majority of people complaining here are new customers since Dec 4th 2017, I am a customer from Oct 2016.

You also fail to take into account the 1000’s of HEB’s and EB’s who never received what they paid for, the accessories. That’s fraud plain and simple. How many HEB’s and EB’s would recommend a V now to others or for that matter recommend buying anything from Eve again due to their original experience. It’s only diehards like yourself that offer any opposition to the very real and accurate criticisms others such as myself have.

So Everyone who is considering a purchase, there is a method to actually judge the excitement of past customers. Most of us early backers, would be screaming from the rooftops about the excellent quality, excellent customers service and excellent experiences we have gotten from the process of being involved with Eve. But guess what, when you do your research you don’t see this in the numbers you would expect from early adopters that wanted Eve to succeed, waiting patiently, not doing charge backs because we all foolishly believed what we were being told by Eve.

As we say on this side of the Atlantic, “The proof is in the pudding”

My advice to potential new customers is do your own research. Don’t believe me or others. Look for all the raving reviews and posts on Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, hardware forums etc. What you will find is this, on Facebook a completely inactive Eve-Tech page, same for twitter. Is that the public profile of an company not in trouble or in trouble.

Judge for yourself. Save yourself from the self serving fanboys/girls.


#117

It is not us harming Eve, it is Eve harming themselves.

So let’s be logical about this, logic is a great tool…

Eve said there was an investor, so how are we harming the chances of customers getting their “first” V, getting a replacement or getting a refund. I nearly fell of the chair when I read “their first”, your assumption that it would be their first and then there would be more after that.

Let the mythical investor fund Eve to the tune it takes to resolve their issues.

But when you look at the order of events that will happen according to Eve

Shipments of new orders
Warranty replacements
Refunds

Is that indicative of a company with an actual real investor, or a company in crisis hoping they can drum up more naive souls to make purchases to fulfill old ones. Negative cash flow models always break, they never ever work themselves out.

If there is an investor we all have nothing to worry about, if there is no investor there is
no Eve
no shipments
no warranty replacements
no refunds

Honestly it makes no different what we wish for Eve here, there is a plain and simple truth, and guess what we are not being told it.

So let’s all wait for the CONCRETE UPDATE that has been alluded to. Remember the actual use of the word CONCRETE.


#118

I understand your view point but look at it from an investors point of view.

The community is the only real thing of value that eve has. Its a public forum. Anyone can read everything. Any investor is mainly investing in potential. If they see the community that is in disarray and only getting worse would they not back out?

Every action Eve takes has a potential to ruin the company. But likewise the community is an integral part of the system having been given an unprecedented degree of influence, hence the community can also ruin the company.

Yes we are waiting for an Investor to bail us out and have been for some time. But investors will only invest in an company if they see potential, if everyone’s out to ‘get them’ then who will invest?

As we stand today the devices people are waiting for have been built and are waiting for shipping. The manufacturer won’t release for ship without being paid. Seeing as most of community money is being held by payment processors eve needs a cash injection from an investor to circumvent payment processors no doubt this will be a large amount of money hance it will take time to go through all their clearing processes. The moment the money hits Eves account they can then pay the manufacturing to release all the devices and also pay the shipping folk. There will be no significant lead time once money is in hand, it will be weeks not months. <(this is how I understand it at least if @nawthor or @konstantinos like this post then you can take it to mean its reasonably factually acurate).

So to be clear any witch hunt instigated by anyone here in the community will only be hurting their own chances of getting a device or refund. I agree that eve royally messed up but that’s old news at this point we are at the mercy of investors and in that dicussion the community is the tipping point. The community can be priceless or worthless. Make it priceless not worthless.


#119

The statement does not align at all with the updates we have been getting.

Audit’s and Mass production. Investor is on board but only waiting for legal docs to be completed.

So either you are misinformed yourself or are now acting on your own accord as Eve’s new PR representative.

Consider this, when do customers get the right to inform others, 1 month, 3 months, 6 Months, 9 Months, 1 Year, 2 Years…

What is the probability of success right now, they have an investor 100%, they have no investor Zero %. It is not the customers position to bail out Eve that is their job.

So let’s see what the CONCRETE UPDATE is.

Yes I know, us dissenters are piling on the pressure, but that is exactly what is needed right at this moment to protect as many customers as we can, customers who are still in a position to get their money back through their payment processors.

That is all I and others are advising for new customers where possible, protect yourself from the very real potential of loosing your very hard earned money and wait till all this mess is over.

It’s pragmatism plain and simple, not malicious intent.


#120

It roughly aligns if you read between the lines and think about what an investor would expect to happen. Also Nawthor liked the post so I can’t be far off the mark.

You have every right to inform. As have I. I’m not asking you stop I’m just saying there may repercussions. I’ve also asked the team to amend the website if they can.

They already have investors on board, more than one I beleive. I think they’ve signed everything just awaiting funds.

I know it’s not malicious intent and what your doing is admirable but it may do more harm than good at this point

As you said well see how the update goes


#121

What happens next and how the community behaves is all down to the next update.

Whether that update is truthful

Whether that update is respectful to the community…which this one was not !

Whether there is a CONCRETE timeline that is adhered to and laid out as “paint by numbers” for the community.

The current update is what is directly responsible for the current tone from the community, if Eve wanted a different tone then respect their customers with a respectful update, especially after all the BS their LOYAL (some thing they have forgotten) customers have had to endure.

Take your customer for granted and they will make their concerns known, and I am going to reiterate this again here in this post,

Eve needs to get a properly trained, experienced and qualified PM. None of this would have ever happened if they had one engaged from the beginning. Proper PM’s have the knowledge and tools sets to mitigate all the problems Eve has faced, if Eve wants to be arrogant in their response as they were before when I brought this up then it will be more of the same going forward. They are not PM’s no matter how much they would like to consider themselves as one.


#122

May I just kindly add a forgotten detail: The statement does not align with my understanding of the updates we have been getting. :hugs:


#123