Weekly Update 07.9


#43

Well MS is making an announcement about Surface in October 2.


#44

Don’t forget: they also said that they would absolutely complete all the orders by the end of June…
I hate to be that guy or to be overly harsh or negative, but the promises and guarantees from this company (at least regarding order fulfilment) don’t seem to be worth the data packets they’re printed on.


#45

Oh, I won’t argue. I’m just curious if they are willing to say anything about this latest statement. The older ones I don’t see the point in trying to get an answer to.

I’ve been around since a little after the crowd funding was closed (or I would have been one of them) and placed my order in the first 6 minutes (helped a friend with his order first) of the Dec 4th fire sale. I get it. I would still like to see a product though. And other than the processor the components really won’t be an issue (well maybe north bridge depending on what all it is). The primary reason the CPU will be an issue is the BIOS patching and CPU throttling that will be done on these older CPUs because of the Spectre and Meltdown vulnerabilities.


#46

That’s fair. I am actually a little curious about what went wrong this time, as this new deadline did seem a lot more conservative and a bit more serious than the last ones.
It’s a shame we’ll probably never know.


#47

I doubt that anything went “wrong”, per-say. Securing an investor takes time. Once an investor commits there is still a lot that has to happen before money actually hits the bank account and all information can be made public. There is still the issue of frozen funds as well. Unfortunately, there’s just a lot of factors that are keeping things moving slow.


#48

I already doubt they have any money left on accounts.

All these month support guys and other guys worked for free?

I honestly think our money lost already man


#49

They can’t even fulfill those warranty claims how are they going to fulfill the massive orders? :thinking:


#50

If I remember correctly, their priority is fulfil the orders, deal with warranty and issues, then address refunds.
So it’s not that they can’t deal with warranty, it’s simply that they won’t. (Or at least not yet)


#51

Now even the customer support is not responding to email about refund.
Maybe this website will disappear soon :frowning:


#52

I’ve contacted two parties simultaneously.

One is a startup that advertised itself as being transparent, actively engaged in discussion, and an intimate alternative to corporations.

The other was the beaucratic Finnish consumer protection agency.

Guess which one responded? (Hint: not Eve)


#53

A bird in the hand is worth two in the Bush.

In all likely hood it will be far sooner that you guys will receive a device than receive a refund so its probably a better idea to cancel your refund request if at all possible.

In all likely hood you can have a V in your hands within two months. A refund? Maybe Christmas? Maybe 1st quarter next year?

In the short term this is better for you guys who a requesting refunds and in the long run it is also better for Eve (they won’t go bankrupt) .

Just a thought.


#54

@Attiq, this is becoming illegal. Most countries have consumer protection laws that don’t allow companies to delay refunds beyond 2 months delay.

This is in addition to the complete radio silence from @Konstantinos and @Team who consistently lie, break their own deadlines, and never provide evidence, numbers, or progress reports to hold themselves accountable.

I joined this project to be part of a community who made something great together. Yet if the CEO refuses to hold up their end of the bargin while ignoring the community who’s money on the line (buying a new laptop is a big deal for some people, and that money is not disposable.)

At what point does an individual realize they are being scammed and take any neccessary actions they can to reclaim any money from this situation… if possible at all.


#55

Of course, then you would be doubling down on the belief that the team will be able to provide warranty or even basic support on your device. Up to this point, they have not proven themselves reliable in that regard either.

Let’s be honest, for a company to withhold refunds from customers for a product they have proven unable to deliver for greater than 9 months is simply ridiculous. It’s pretty clear to me that they don’t have the liquidity to cover these refunds and need that money to assemble units in the first place.


#56

In all likely hood you can have a V in your hands within two months.

Just wondering how you can offer such a timeline, Seriously LMAO.

Better to not ask for a refund from Eve/Fortress but to ask for a charge back, that way you ensure that you get your money, and get it promptly.

All things considered who’s to say that there won’t be more delusional promises about deliveries.

Going on past form there has never been an accurate delivery timeline from the Eve team, as in ever.

If you can, get your money back now, because bankruptcy/insolvency is highly likely at this stage, unless of course the mystical investor comes out into the open to offer words of surety/intention. At this stage it’s in the investors interest to make themselves known, that is if they exist

Announcements were promised, of course on-boarding an investor can take time, loosing an investor is also extremely easy at this stage (which I suspect has happened), finding a new investor will take more time…say two more months :slight_smile:

Then prospective purchasers along with existing owners would have to wonder how long it will be until the many driver/hardware issues are solved, 3 months after the next batch of shipments, 6 months,…, we are after-all currently waiting over 9 months since first shipments.

Then we all have to wonder what effect the bios updates to mitigate the “design flaws” Intel built into their current range of chips. Consider that every single vendor on the planet other than the Debian signed up Intel’s stipulation that no new benchmarks could be done against the older systems in order to receive the so called fixes from Intel. But thankfully the honest people at Debian told Intel to stick it where the sun don’t shine, thereby forcing Intel to back down globally. Now why would Intel try this in the first place, because they are “fubar’ed”, class action lawsuits everywhere. Most of the big purchasers will be getting free upgrades from Intel, those purchasers being Amazon, Google, Oracle, Facebook for their data centers but will the little guys get this, no.

So when the Eve team releases these fixes, which I should point out is considered critical from a security perspective by every other manufacturer, there will be a very serious drop in performance for the V.

I have a top of the line XPS from dell and I can confirm the performance drop has been substantial after the bios updates were applied.

A dell 5285 fully spec’ed can be got for $400 refurbished (over stock from dell) on ebay and amazon (a little more expensive here). You will get the machine in 3-5 days, it’s processor even after bios updates will still be better than the ones in the V right now even without the bios update.

If you still want a V, wait for the next hardware update, processor wise, and buy a refurb in the meantime to tide you over. The screen is still one of the best in the market, but you have to expect that experience will not be as buttery smooths as the marketing will have you believe when the updates come. That is if Eve survives that long, investor or no investor.

We have all been bullshitted to far too often and for far too long…


#57

<rant>

There certainly is a possibility that people will receive a V before a refund.
But do you know why that is?
Because Eve has made it so to coerce people into not seeking refunds.

And if I did cancel my refund application, and actually received a V (at the moment it seems unlikely that the orders will be finished, certainly not in 2 months), what would happen if something went wrong with it? So far Eve hasn’t seemed to have made good on any warranty claims, missing accessories, or any other issues.

A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.
But either is better than no birds anywhere. Or getting a bird in your hand, only for it to turn rotten.

I love what Eve has accomplished with their device, and their goals and ideals.
But I am far less happy with their track record. I want out, and I want to watch from a safe distance. Then, if order fulfilment ever becomes reliable and the company doesn’t die, I will consider doing business with them again. But for this product, for this order, I want out. I have been let down and screwed over too many times to continue putting up with this.
What Eve is doing breaks almost every consumer law on the planet. Their actions regarding failure to fulfil orders, denial of refunds, and (when they made order cancellation possible), delaying of refunds breaks consumer laws in so many countries, at the very least, my country and theirs.

So even if there was a way to cancel a refund claim, or if support actually replied to people, if they actually cared to listen to anyone, or if Eve gave a single shit about people who have applied for refunds, I may consider trying to reclaim my order. But there isn’t and they don’t, so I can’t and I won’t.

I do not regret cancelling my order. The only thing I regret is not being able to do it sooner, or going to PayPal to get my money back sooner, back before Eve delayed and delayed always promising that shipments were imminent, suggesting that refunds would be processed quickly from the frozen funds, before the announcement that refunds would take even longer than fulfilling orders (a timeline that they are unlikely to even be able to keep). An announcement which came just over 180 days past the flash sale date, making it impossible to pursue refunds through PayPal, something which is unlikely to be a coincidence, and more likely to be a deliberate tactic to trap people in this abusive relationship. Whether by malice, innocent ignorance, or over optimism, we have been repeatedly misled.

</rant>


#58

@jollygrin @Barky58 @Joe_Nixon @IsaacB

Guys I want to be clear I’m not defending Eve on this matter, the point I’m trying to make is that it is a CERTAINTY that you will receive (if you receive anything at all) a V before you get a refund.

Order of priority for Eve.

  1. Those awaiting V’s
  2. Those awaiting replacements
  3. Those asking for returns

The time delay between thease camps will be months, so if your waiting for a refund you’ll have to wait for all 35% of the V backlog to be cleared plus the probably high amount of warranty claims to be cleared then they’ll start looking at refunds. I seriously doubt that will happen before Christmas.

Now if you get refunds through others means then that’s great for you but you may be inadvertently hurting other people in the same position as you. The less V orders and the more refunds eve has the more likely it’ll go bankrupt thus no V’s no warranty replacements and no refunds.

I am In no way suggesting that you are not entitled to a refund, quite the opposite, and yes it’s very illegal at this point.

What I’m saying is the quickest way for everyone to get their money back is the wait the two odd months it’ll take them to deliver the V’s. If they don’t then by all means get the pitchforks out.


#59

Yeah… I probably overreacted a bit. Sorry.
The levels of despair and frustration, and feelings of betrayal are very high at the moment.


#60

To paraphrase @jollygrin it’s a lot of money for someone who doesn’t have that much disposable income. And I can appreciate that more than most.

If I were in the same position I’d be livid too. The way Eve have handled this is atrocious. But having said that the more you try to get out of Eve (refunds, legal action etc) the more your hurting people in the community.

The only thing of value left is the community. Whichever camp your in, awaiting V, awaiting replacement or awaiting refund you need the company to survive long enough to get that. Don’t kill the golden goose before you’ve gotten your egg

Let’s just see how the next few weeks go. I know this is about as comforting as a slap in the face for those who have been waiting 8 months but everyones hands are tied at this point.


#61

While I try to understand your logic, I have been in this business for a very long time. I wanted above all else for Eve to be successful but there comes a time when common sense must take over.

Eve has two choices here, be absolutely 100% honest with the community, their current financial backers per-say, and explain in detail what is happening or continue lying through their teeth hoping for a miracle.

If you were a betting man and you were to go on past behavior you would short their shares to hell and back if they were trading, and let us be thankful their shares are not available for trading.

Eve has depended on the kindness of the community for the last two years. There has been a HUGE “opportunity cost” forced on their customers by their abysmal project management, quality control, cost overruns and to put it simply extremely bad management of events. Inexperience can only be used as an excuse so many times!

I can specifically point out where money was wasted (customer’s money) because they thought they were over the line, marketing, PR, launch videos, attending trade shows e.t.c. Costs to any VC in the valley would go, “you spent money on what!”.

There comes a time when you have to call out the BS for what it is.

The community is not being hurt by the community, the community is being hurt by the continual stream of broken deadlines, promises and lies. We as the community have been singularly the most patient customers on the planet, except for maybe the Tesla 3 people. But at least they know there is continual production going on.

With saying all that, I just purchased on Ebay a refurbished (over stock, because there is a newer model)

Dell Latitude 12 5285 Secure WiFi Core i7-7600U 16GB 256GB SSD, with finger print scanner, smart card reader and LTE for

€550 Euro, original retail price was €1900.

Same format as Eve, infinitely better hardware wise, except for the screen, but I also bought two 28" 4K Acer screen from Amazon for €190 (Amazon warehouse deal) along with the dell USB C docking station €83 (Amazon warehouse deal). All in the whole lot cost €1013, a far better deal than the Eve at any price.

The Eve is no longer relevant for waiting customers, it’s only selling point is the Screen now and as I mentioned before when the bios update comes it won’t be the same experience that people bought into.

The unreasonable delays Eve forced on me has led me to first buy a lenovo 720 (A piece of shit, the fan never stops running), then a Dell XPS and now a 5285 because what I wanted from the beginning was a device that would allow me to go paperless when engaging with customers. I got an Eve delivered with a broken screen, so it essentially has become the same as a desktop in my home office. The keyboard is practically unusable, because of it intermittent issues with Bluetooth connectivity, missed characters when typing. And guess what I ordered two of them and only got one?

What is not obvious on the forum is how many 100’s of customer never got the accessories they ordered. These customers just gave up and faded into the background to save their own sanity!


#62

Can’t agree more, now we’re on the same rope with V, V handle things slow, but it will finish it soon.

Things may get worse if we pour more problems to V