USB-PD and V charging confusion

warranty
v

#41

@Team
We’re having detailed discussion on the voltage and power for V.

Has the final specification for the device been determined and can you share it?

the two basic questions I have:
What are the voltages the V can accept (e.g 5V/3A, 12V/2A, etc.)?
Is the V completely PD-compliant?


#42

They’ve said it’s completely PD-compliant. And that it charges at 36W, which implies at least 12V, because with 9V that would mean 4A, which is (as far as I know) unsupported.


#43

Wait. I thought this thread was meant to take the confusion OUT of USB-PD?


#44

I just asked Konstantinos about the final charger specifications and he confirmed that the charger is going to have 45W!!


#45

Like you can see on the [prototype charger] (USB-PD and V charging confusion)

Having different current for different voltages is just normal, because you are limited in Overall Power = current*voltage

I just wanted to say that explicit mentioning of this single higher power output is weird.

But back to the V:
The question is why a quality charger should fry our V if it can only offer 5V with the craziest maximum current ratings (maximum power = max current * 5V) when the current is chosen by the V itself. And why it should void our warranty if we use another USB (not PD but somehow certified and of high quality) charger.

After creating some more confusion :wink:, I would like to get rid of it and get a clarification why some chargers could damage the V, because all explanations are somehow not right and contain very much ifs… Which make the cases where something can happen very rare:

  • If the charger is defective… can also Happen to V charger
  • If the charger misinterprets Signals and increases voltage… Definition of defective
  • if the V is plugged into Qualcom Quickcharger. That can be indeed dangerous but is avoidable by informing the customer
  • if the charger offers too much current@5V Current is Voltage(5) divided by internal resistance -> The V decides internal resistance and therefore also the current
  • If the chargers catches fire Your house is on fire, go save your cat

#46

A lot has potentially changed. The original specification was 9V/3A, then we heard 36W. The last post from @steak indicates it 45W (we’re not sure if this is input or output).

So, I would like to remove doubt, and know what the actual specification is since we are basically in production.


#47

Hey, you think it’s normal to have different currents for different voltages. But with PD it isn’t. It maxes out the current at 3A with any voltage, except the highest supported one. For example, 45W means 3A up to 15V and (I suppose) maybe optonally 2.25A with 20V.
Allowing higher current than 3A could cause the cable to overheat, or it simply wouldn’t work out with a cable of higher resistance, because too much energy is lost to heat. That’s why it’s out of spec.

So, in the world of USB-PD, it’s an exception to have different max current for different voltages. An exception for the highest supported voltage, because everything else is limited to the very same 3A, and that’s why it’s highlighted in the spec.

As for removing doubts, we should go with the latest news we have. So it’s 45W, which means up to 15V. And maybe 20V, it’s a bit more economical (lower current means less energy loss) but financially doesn’t make much sense because the charger is more expensive.


#48

@Kirk Input power has to be always the output power.
If Input is less, the adapter would generate Power out of nowhere.
In reallity the Adapter will have a little higher Input, because it does also generate some heat, but that is not important.
The 45W has to be the maximum output Power.

@pauliunas just look at the prototype charger. It has different maximum current ratings for each voltage:
5V@3A or 9V@2A or 12V@2A

That the cables get destroyed at 3A is true because it is DC not AC.

It would be great to get a confirmation about the V charger specs from @Team

I have also wrote the greatest Questions Here to Konstantinos Engeneering Q&A


#49

Yes, the charger is like that… But the specification has maximum current of 3A for all voltages except the highest one. I thought we were discussing the specification here, not that one charger :slight_smile:

And V is PD-compliant, so it will most probably support 3A with all voltages up to 15V. That’s what the specification says.


#50

Yes, it is obvious the output is always less than the input.

That said it hasn’t been clear on what is being referenced during the discussion. Only the wattage is being mentioned. One might assume it’s output, but that is an assumption. Given that the specification has changed at least twice, I am just asking for definite communication what the output specifications is.

If you look at some of the discussions from last year, I think you can find where output is used on some occasions.

Just trying to remove uncertainty.


#51

Yes I also wanted to clarify this by asking the Team. But they seem to be super busy right now and we will need to wait until they solved to production issues.

And it is indeed highest priority to get the V production running, since we all are desperately waiting for our V’s

And I would like to thank Team again here for all their effort!


#52

will that degrade the battery faster though? 36W was already high, 45W is even crazier.


#53

Why should it? It will just charge it faster :slight_smile: Most laptop chargers are rated at 60W or more, and their batteries have very similar capacity. Believe me, this charger is still damn slow for a battery of this size.


#54

I’m not sure if it will charge faster.
The battery has a certain voltage.
The maximal current for the USB-C is 3A.
So if the charger changes from 36W to 45W the voltage changes from 12V to 15V.
If the battery has 12V or less it should not load faster.


#55

Can I put in a plea here please for an OFFICIAL (@Team) statement of what should be OK to use with the V (and what else the V charger itself can be used with) as I’m completely confused and lost by the conversation so far.

I appreciate that it will be impossible to list devices but a note of what charger/device power specifications we should be looking for will be very helpful.

Of course, a disclaimer will be necessary that Eve cannot be held responsible for any damage caused by use of 3rd party devices and that the specifications quoted are only applicable if a devices works according to its published specifications…

Speaking personally - I need to know whether my Lumia 950XL charger will be OK with the V and vice-versa. Also whether my RavPower portable charger-bank is OK, along with the various cables (all to USB C spec).


#56

Here’s a quote from the FAQ:


#57

Yes, I know about that but, and this was said at the time, other devices will work. I just want to know what to look for in a device which should work. And I know it will be at my own risk.


#58

Any charger that uses the USB-PD standard (you can just search for “USB-PD” or look for “charges the new Macbook Pro” in the description) should work without any problem at all with your V.


#59

Yes that is nothing new for us. This thread is about not throwing away all our 1 year old chargers and battery-packs.

Because any USB charger which does not exceed 5V@3A (and does only output 5V) should be fine to power the V too (not saying that it can actually load the V while using, but the V would consume less power out of the internal battery).

If that would not be the case, the prototype V charger would not work with the V obviously ;).
I am not saying that Eve has to garantuee that any 1$ charger will not kill the V, but that if the charger is within a certain specification (=5V@3A) the V can be charged safely without loosing the warranty.

And the V charger should also be able to power any USB Device (except for Qualcom Quickcharge devices and on your own risk unfortunately), since it will just output 5V@3A if the device is not USB-PD ready. This is according to the specifications above.

@iKirin or sombody else from @Team can you confirm this?


#60

Speaking from personal experience (thus no nice blue staff color):

  • The V charger (white one that was sent to all prototype testers - not the final one) charged all of my USB-C devices (be it PD or not) without any problems.
  • My Nintendo Switch Charger charged the V and Switch without problem, however failed to charge my OnePlus 2. (It does begin to charge it a little but then does not charge it any more)
  • My OP2 charger (coming from a USB-A port) does not charge the V - with both the included and an aftermarket cable. Switch + OP2 do however charge.

I’ve not got a USB-C (non-PD) charger available to me to check if using a USB-C port to charge does work so unfortunately no testing that :confused: