You all forgot about one of the main rules for this community.
You all forgot about one of the main rules for this community.
Here you go with an easy to use Adapter for any USB 2 peripheral you have. It costs not more than 2 bucks. If you want USB 3 or even 3.1 you pay not more than 5 bucks.
And What does make an Adapter easy to use? Every USB device will work with your USB C Adapter… And for hdmi, you had not the chance until now to attach a screen to your USB A ports on your mobile and needed another Port for that. Now you can use that Port to attach other devices while you do not need a secondary screen. And if you want an easy to use Adapter you just buy the original one that needs to work.
Yeah now I need like… 20 of these? And then I’m still using the good old USB. I’m not even switching to this new “standard” if I get these adapters. And why should I?
That must be in an older post, since the only thing about in HDMI in your recent posts is that HDMI is more widespread than DP and that HDMI is larger than type c.
This was meant as a joke, but now I realize that it wasn’t that funny.
But there’s no reason the type c-ports on future graphics cards can’t be video and USB. I’m looking forward to it
No, use an adapter. Or dont use an adapter, if your computer still has the legacy ports. However, when you need to replace your keyboard maybe a couple years later, you should look for a USB-C ones.
I think this is a bit unfair, when you compare a well matured standard vs a new one. Early USB keyboards were quite a lot more expensive than PS/2 keyboards, but it went down in price few years later.
Well, the fact that you can use the same port for USB, upto 100W charging, display output, analog audio, and even external GPU, I think its pretty similar to the PS/2 case, except on a larger scale.
Same with USB-A HDD and USB-A thumb drive. This is not anything new. Common sense is always required when operating computers, or anything actually.
It is entirely possible. The GPU can act as a USB hub. Almost every USB-C monitors now have USB plugs, so I think it makes perfect sense to include that. All you need is a USB controller, the same way happened when HDMI and DP were coming into video cards and they started adding audio codecs.
DP was never meant to be a replacement for HDMI. It was meant to replace DVI, while HDMI was replacing RCA and SCART.
This actually raised an important point. In the launch event of the SP4, Panos mentioned that he couldn’t bring the thickness of the SP4 below 8.4mm because of the USB-A port. So it is evident that USB-A is holding the industry back the same way RJ45 did.
You could argue that you don’t need a tablet thinner than 8.4mm, and I agree, but it doesn’t change the fact that it limits designer’s freedom for future devices and form factors.
Now imagine that exact same case, except you don’t need the adapter for that. The adapters exist because we are in the transitional period. Few years down the line, you wont need it anymore as all devices and peripherals (hopefully) will have USB-C
Barrel charging port cannot act as anything more than charging, so I would say it has to go away asap. Not to mention the industry never agreed to one standard on this one, the situation isn’t any better than it was with cellphones before they agreed upon to use mini or microUSB.
There is no such thing as non-USB Type-C port.
That’s why the V still has legacy ports for transition, the same way old laptops still have PS/2. Only Apple would have the infinite wisdom to replace every single port with USB-C.
However, little by little, you will replace those 20 devices one by one, and (ideally) you would replace it with a USB-C ones. In a couple of years, its probably going to be 10 USB-A, and 10 USB-C. Few years after that, no devices will have USB-A ports anymore, but you would have 18 USB-C and 2 USB-A. In that case it makes sense to buy 2 adapters for those two legacy devices.
Haha, that should be in the rules
Nope, you’re wrong here. Hard drives have type B ports, and you can’t plug type A things into that.[quote=“Patrick_Hermawan, post:247, topic:4555”]
However, little by little, you will replace those 20 devices one by one
I won’t, because I’ll never buy a type C device. It would break compatibility with all of my host devices.
Anyway, I’m fed up with this shit running around in circles. You just ignore my arguments and I have to repeat them over and over again… Muting this thread now.
That is simply wrong. Standards are great, but Hardware manufacturer just take the cheapest port if it fits.
I have multiple devices that should have USB B but they just used A on it since it is cheaper. And because of this you can buy USB A-A cables
You have 2 ports when you recieve your V which are USB C. That means you will need up to 2 Adapters (<10$) to use 4 USB devices at once at USB 3.1 speed.
If you throw away your keyboard in some years your PC will also have some USB C ports along with the USB A ports. Then you will probably buy an USB C Port keyboard because it does not make sense to buy an A one,because they cost the same in manufacturing!
It The same thing with PS2. It is still on New Motherboards with FM2+ Sockets for backward compatiblity, if there is space available for it, but you will most likely use the USB ports. Thats the same thing with PS2 and USB C. and you said, that you did not care to buy PS2 -> USB adapters to use your old peripherals.
Right now USB C is rare, that is correct. But you have to start somewhere to change, and changing peripherals first is a stupid idea
Alright I’m gonna do this one for the sake of the whole community. Don’t you dare punks call me out on my lack of common sense
So here we go my USB A external HDD and thumb drives
Now I plug it all in
and…USB A has failed to work
That is a very weird hard drive and it’s clearly out of the standard. The USB standard does not allow this. Type A ports can only be placed in host devices.
I’ve never seen a single device with a type A port that is not a computer (or TV or anything that can act as host). Not even in online shops. All those ports cost pretty much the same, there’s little difference between $0.01 and $0.02. And similarly, I’ve never seen an A to A cable, so dunno where you’re pulling this from.
That is just one example, now you have seen one
I Do not think there is a computer hiding in this hdd case
And there are also other devices that do that.
This is an USB A-A cable:
###I am not saying that this is a good idea and I would never ever build such a device myself, because it can really cause confusion, but it is done
I would like to point out that you clearly have ignored many arguments in favor of Type-C, so don’t say we ignore yours. By the way, in my previous post, I addressed every single one of your points from your last large post, piece by piece, categorized with numbering. Waiting on a reply for that.
@Patrick_Hermawan, @Alexander_Halbarth, I do agree with Pauliunas on this one as those drives are definitely out of spec…they’re not indicative of the USB-A standard and if we are considering those drives then we also have to consider out-of-spec Type-C which is another ballgame entirely. The kinks have been worked out with the Type-A spec so these drives are extremely rare. This is not the case with Type-C as of yet, so I think it’s much more fair for both parties to leave those examples out of it.
Anyway, returning to the main point: I’ll break a few points down on advantages for Type-C.
- Reversibility. Not just connector reversibility, but END reversibility. This is a limitation of Type-A standard, they can only be placed on a host device. The end goal is C-to-C connections, with the rest being negotiated by the controller. A great advantage for the average consumer, or your Mom/Dad.
- Far superior to Micro-USB for mobile devices. Durability alone (I know you agree on mobile, at least). This is an advantage for everyone.
- Same cable to charge phone, laptop, tablet, battery. This is an advantage when travelling.
- Thunderbolt 3. I have an argument there but I’ll leave it out for reasons you mentioned.
- Alt-modes. Again, the end goal here. Amazing advantage for those who bring their device out.
End goal: you go to a hotel with your V. You bring two Type-C cables, one to charge your phone and one to charge your V. You hook up your V to the TV using your Type-C-to-C cable to seamlessly charge the device and output video. (DisplayPort can be passively adapted to HDMI if done right, so I don’t see the need for an HDMI-alt-mode when DP works fine). You also bring your Type-C HDD full of media, so you use your second cable to hook that up to your Vs second C port and access all your media. Enjoy your full 1080BD rips on a TV. This is the end goal, and what the technology will allow to happen. At the end of day, out and about, using both devices, you come back and plug them both in to charge, have no peripherals to stow save for the HDD. Ready for the next day/destination.
End result. 1 phone, 1 V, 2 small Type-C cables and a portable HDD.
What would this be with the current standard?
1 phone, 1 phone charging cable. 1 V, one proprietary charger/Micro-USB (ugh). 1 HDD, one Type-A to Type-B cable. One HDMI cable.
You tell me, which is better? In a few years, which is superior?
I ask you, give me one good real-world example where Type-C is a worse solution than Type-A to -B, Type-A to Micro-USB, or any other combination when the standards are operating as designed. There are some incompatibilities right now, but consumers, retailers, and manufacturers will eventually sort this out with time. For now, simple Google and Amazon reviews on products will give you all answers you need quickly.
This is exactly the point I have been trying to make as well, that, putting peripheral/cable availability and cost aside, USB-C is a technically superior solution in many ways, if not all ways, the specs and features are simply better than previous USB iterations. And since all USB ports are designed by the same USB IF (Implementers Forum) there’s no worry about a superior USB connector being somehow put out of business by a competing inferior USB connector, this is not a replay of VHS v. Betamax or Blu-ray Disc v. HD-DVD. In those cases it had to do with competition and who could market their product better, not necessarily which one had better video quality or more features. In this case it simply boils down to which connector is better, and that’s the one that will be used. And technically speaking, not subjectively speaking, USB-C is superior to micro-USB and USB-A in almost every way, save some arguable, possibly subjective points about whether a USB-A port is better since it is bigger and therefore more durable. That being said, once everyone has had time to adjust to the new standard, the benefits of a superior port will start being realized and at that point USB-C will not only be technically better, it will also begin to be subjectively better. The key here, and this is what I think @pauliunas keeps missing, is that you have to be able to differentiate initial cost savings or sentimentality from long-term savings and technological progress. And to be honest, it’s ok, many people including myself have trouble with this concept from time to time. It’s hard to justify spending extra hard-earned cash on something that appears to have few, if any, immediate benefits for us personally. But all of us being in this community testifies to the fact that we were all able to, at some level, justify waiting a year and a half to see our concept of a near-perfect 2-in-1 device realized, rather than buying something that was perhaps cheaper or more readily available. And if you take that same long-term approach to the USB-C issue, keeping in mind the technical superiorities that the standard has over previous USB formats and remembering the fact that this port will continue to be supported by the USB IF as long as it is feasible, and weeding out the hurt feelings about initial cost (really compatibility with legacy ports shouldn’t even factor in, since you can easily buy adapters, just like you could with every previous USB iteration such as mini-USB and micro-USB), more than likely you will come to the conclusion that it is worth taking the plunge and going through some minor inconvenience in order to arrive at the benefits of the new standard.
Here’s a little hint for anyone who wants to critique my little rant, which I welcome wholeheartedly: You’ll be more successful if you critique the parts that are subjective, rather that arguing with established facts that prove one standard to be technically better than another. To that end, I tried to demarcate clearly the difference between things that I said that were subjective, and things that were fact, or objective.
This was meant to be taken with a
But throughout the years I’ve seen plenty drives like that and I got this one recently from local best buy store, so not as uncommon as you might think. Anyways ultimately it doesn’t really matter, as long as it serves the purpose
I am not quite Sure, that they are out of specification. Here is an official specification of an USB A-A cable.
But I am Sure, that it is something really stupid. But if it works, who cares?
And these drives are not rare at all, even Amazon not only AliExpress has plenty of them.
But lets get back to the topic: USB C is superior and I think that @pauliunas has give a good argument against himself. Because what is the difference using PS2 adapters and using A to C adapters for outdated peripherals?
The actual USB IF spec says not to do it, the reason they made cables with A on the host end and B on the client end was to prevent users trying to plug two computers together and causing some kind of feedback loop. But I guess if you know what you’re doing and don’t do something stupid like that it would be ok.
Religion wars are impossible to win. Some people think the USB C is manna from heaven while others think it is the bane of existence because it requires a converter to work with legacy USB devices.
Unfortunately, we have lived through many forms of obsolescence over the past 20 years, I’ll give you all a list of things and lets see who in the group really worked with these.
- PaperTape. : PaperTape was a way of storing messages using pinholes in a 1/2 " wide roll of paper and an alignment hole down the center. Telex machines routinely used PaperTape to archive telex messages.
- Punch cards : Punch cards were the generally accepted replacement for paper tape, and was used in most data centers up till about 1980 as the preferred method of writing programs and output.
3: Bournoulli Boxes : Bournoulli boxes were removable disk drives for PCs. They normally held 5 MB of data on a 10" platter.
4: 8 Track tapes : 8 track tapes were the preferred method of distributing music in the 1970s.
5: Cassette Tapes: a vast improvement to 8 track tapes were cassette tapes, which were 10% of the size of 8 track tapes.
6: Kodachrome ASA 25 film. : THis was a very fast ASA film designed for bright sunlight. It’s benefit to professionals was its very small grain.
7: Walkman : Brought back to the center stage by the Guardians of the Galaxy, the Walkman was a way to carry recorded music around.
8: 45 RPM records: These records were designed to rotate at 45 RPM. THey were much smaller than their counterpart vinyl album, which can be found at specialty record shops. The 45 RPM record held 2 songs, one on the front and one on the back.
9: 5 1/4" Floppy Disks : It’s a misnomer about floppy disks, The first version was single sided and held 60K of data. It was advances in technology that allowed them to hold 360K of data.
10: Acoustic Couplers : Acoustic couplers were the cups that a phone attached to (if you saw war games, you saw Matthew Broderick’s computer connecting dial up using acoustic couplers) a dial up modem. Early dial up modems could connect at 9600 bits per second and advances in technology increased that gradually to 56000 bits per second. You would hear the connection tones of acoustic couplers throughout an office in the 1980s.
11: Serial and Parallel adapters : These adapters took space on computers and were replaced by USB adapters. Those with serial and parallel cables complained that they had all of these devices that used serial and parallel connections, and a market grew to connect serial and parallel devices via USB.
All of these devices have been obsolesced. So while you believe that the USB should be grandfathered for perpetuity, it is only a matter of time for it too to be obsolesced. Arguing the merits of a USB device is going to get arguments on both ends of the aisle and will never be won.
Just be glad that the V can support both, it sounds like all devices from Microsoft will not, I guess they chose their battle side because, (fill in the blank, I suspect it is apple, but can’s support that supposition)
You forgot the Iomega Zip Drive I think I still have a working drive somewhere in my parts drawer along with a few 100MB disks. Oh and don’t forget the 15-pin game port that every joystick was designed to plug into, making every single joystick with that connector obsolete when they quit putting a game port on PCs.
Just look at the difference between USB 1.0 and USB 3.1 regarding current and data capabilities: From 1.5 Mb/sec to 10 Gb/sec and 5V@1.5A for USB Battery Charging 1.0 in 2007 to 20V@5A for USB PD-2.0 in 2016.
@pauliunas this paragraph is for you In 2007 when micro-USB came out and you had to replace all of your mini-USB devices, you survived. The advantages were worth the pain of the adjustment. Like: A 10,000 insertion/removal lifecycle compared to a 5,000 lifecycle of mini-USB; Or, the fact that it was half the thickness, enabling your devices to be thinner. It was worth the switch because the port was just so much better. Fast forward to 2014, the exact same situation. You can have a Super-Speed micro-USB port, that is true, but the connector is almost twice as wide as a micro-USB 2.0, and you would still have to switch everything over if you wanted to take advantage of the speed of that port. So there’s also another option called USB-C. The first time in almost 20 years that a new lettered port was added to the USB spec, it seems a little unnecessary at first. But wait, it can handle 10 Gb/sec connections, it can pass 5V@3A and support USB-PD 2.0, it supports all kinds of Alternate modes, like DisplayPort, HDMI, Thunderbolt, and MHL, even proprietary modes like PCI-Express and Ethernet, and it fixes the reversibility problem of earlier connectors (device manufacturers were required to put a USB symbol above each port that you would line up with the logo on the plug to know which way to plug it in, but let’s face it, half the time you can’t even see those logos when your PC is sitting on the floor). Just like Mini-USB A/B, Micro-USB A/B, and UC-E6 (I actually had a device that used this port) before it addressed issues and added improvements, USB-C similarly adds more functionality and ease of use. So why would you insist on rejecting it and stubbornly clinging to an inferior version? Without USB-C I would not have a dongle that fits in my palm and can plug into either my phone or my tablet and instantly add HDMI and USB 3.0 functionality. Without USB-C I would still be charging my phone at 2.4 amps instead of 3.0. Without USB-C I would still be hunting around for the right way to plug my phone in in the dark before I go to sleep. Need I go on?
I am extremely happy that Eve decided to go with USB-C/TB3 as opposed to just full-USB ports like the Surface. The best part is it still has both ports, so those who are still using a lot of USB-A devices can still be happy. As for me, I’m all in on USB-C. I’ve gotten little adapters to convert all of my old chargers to USB-C, only cost me a few dollars, true, I’ve had to buy a few USB-A to USB-C cables, but I had to buy USB-B to micro-USB cables the old way anyways, so nothing has really changed. I really hope with the SP5 that Microsoft finally takes the plunge and adds USB-C, because the Surface Pro feels DOA to me coming with no USB-C ports in 2017.