Supporting the V just the way you need it..brainstorm!


@SteveYork the thing is that the country itself (when talking about the law) has the same consumer protection as all the other European member states, but it’s easy to just do something illegal without getting caught by the police. It’s the same in other countries: Just don’t write the damages of the device down - now, how do you prove who destroyed it?
But the difference is that in eastern countries more firms are doing that. If something similar would happen in Germany, you just go to another firm. But what do you do, if everybody fu**s with you? And who do you trust in the first place?


No idea, everything is just wrong, I can’t tell the reasons. They either ignore the law or make stupid excuses, because people here are not going to the court and they know it. Lawyers are expensive (not for the average pocket), you need to spend lots of time with your lawyer and in the court halls, get days off your job and so on. People are just not going to do this, because it costs money, time and nerves.
By the way, @SyrtakiVampir put it very accurately.


But EVE has to balance self repairs against people not knowing what they are doing, ordering a kit from eBay and totally screwing everything up. If that happens (which it will with self directed warranties) is EVE on the hook to remedy the screw up or is the person screwed because they attempted a repair themselves which was outside their comfort zone?

This is an important question to ask because if repair kits are made available this will be tested within months, including people trying to alter the EVE V, screwing things up, and making things worse with a repair kit. What is the remedy in this situation? Is the V covered by warranty because they first caused the problem or is EVE on the hook because they attempted to apply a self directed warranty kit unsuccessfully?

I can already see the reputation of V being dragged through the mud if this is not figured out.


Do you have a small claims courts?


Courts are effective for us, but they are meaningless to a company like EVE. Press coverage of errant warranty experiences is much worse.


I’m happy to see that also on this topic the community’s input is considered and taken serious :angel:

detailed thoughts may follow as soon as there’s a proper computer in reach again (I hate typing on the phone…), unless someone voices them first anyways, that is :slight_smile:


I like the V and I like eve as a company and that it is different to any other tech company I’ve know before BUT warranty has to be something that has to be proper solved! (Hope that I Never need it anyway) cause I use nearly all of my devices for my work and there have to be solutions if something goes wrong from the hardware side, that wasn’t my fault.
If I mess up the software, drop it or even throw it out of the window, then it is truly my fault but if the harddrive fails after a week in normal use, I Wanne get that solved without problems and discussions!

that is very important for me!


Considering EVE’s goal from the beginning was to make the V a flagship killer, then this should get true for support as well.
I think we all realize that a small company like EVE will not provide the level of support we know from the largest players (language localized, phone support, next day repair …), but rather that this should be a highly optimized, best for the buck, probably community potential using support model.

Lets learn from the best or the worst, analyze why some companies are fast/good at service and what are the traits of some service that makes a customer mad.

I was reluctant to post into this thread as i worked in the support space for the competition, and still work in a different area for the same company, so that may introduce some bias into my opinion. But i have considered support as the highest risk related to the V purchase, as best HW specs in the market are one thing, but reliability and the service in the case of the failure another. One can argue that a competition device is a couple hundreds bucks more expensive, but if that includes years proven (the company has a solid support infrastructure), good and fast service then the price difference may not seem that high if EVEs support for the V will be not good enough. That being said, it is in my interest to protect my investment and to try to get the best support possible.

And i will not expose any internal info of my employer, i try tot better summarize stuff that is publicly known…

So, DELL support and what EVE could learn from it:
-The systems have an onboard testing suite - that enables to identify and confirm issues really fast, you run it, get an error, report it & its clear what the error is & what needs to happen (lets say a read memory error=mobo replace)
-The systems are uniquely identifiable - that helps for international warranty, reporting a stolen system, changing ownership, keeping track of the systems history (what were issues before, what was already replaced and has part warranty now)
-The mainstream support offering is done by the manufacturer, i can purchase through a re seller, but i dont deal with the re seller to claim a warranty case, but with the manufacturer
-The systems have parts that the user can replace himself and not void warranty, this keeps the costs down and can be fast, but the system needs to be designed in an ‘easy replace way’
-Spare parts are available for the end customer (in case you run out of warranty and want to try replace yourself)
-Comprehensive service manual (and not just for the user replaceable stuff)
-You can upgrade warranty up to 5 years

Additionally, this are some notes in regards to topics i saw being discussed in the thread and i thought it may be worth to mention:
Per EU law:
-The warranty period starts with the delivery date
-For an end customer it is 2 years
-For wear off parts (battery) that is only 1 year
-A replaced part has again 2/1 year warranty starting with the replace day

So does anyone else want to mention positive/negative aspects of other companies support models we want EVE to learn from?


Totally agree here - I have previously bought Dell’s for the warranty on top of usually good spec and pricing in the UK.

On this occasion will be taking a chance with Eve V as after a 2 IN 1 and was thinking about a Surface Pro last summer. Expectation is that the V build quality will mitigate the risk to an extent.

Were I to start now what would I choose - esp given the Latitude 2 in 1 and XPS 2 IN 1?


You mean a special court for things like this? Nope, all lawsuits go through the same civil court. Basically one court per town. And you really don’t want to go there, most people would rather pay $500 for something they didn’t receive rather than waste their time in court. Most of the time it just gets postponed or stuck in paperwork until so much time passes that nobody cares anymore. Or sometimes you lose and have to pay all the expenses because the other party made a pathetic excuse and it passed. Or just bribed the judge.


OK. For “small” things (to some financial limit) we have here Small Claims Court - you do not need lawyer, you just represent yourself. There are very low expenses.


Straying away from the main topic again… :smiling_imp:


Why not sell it through the EVE Webshop which will be set up for selling the V’s?
I do not think that laptops have compatible parts from other brands. Maybe from another model of the same series but thats it. Laptops (Tablets maybe even more) are sadly way more fragmented than cars…

I think that EVE cannot offer you a warranty if you open the device yourselves and break something. But they should offer you the possibility (for the time period after the warranty) to repair your tablet yourself on your own responsibility and offering support in this direction (official replacement parts, guides, community support, …)


I was in touch with multiple of these “service partners” from various brands in Austria at least and all they did was screw things up after you waited a minimum of 3 weeks for your device.

After the “repair” the phone was mostly even more defective as before and investing another 3 or maybe 6 weeks to get that sorted out again lets warranty run out very fast…


Spare Parts sales is a good topic to be thought over thoroughly, as there are obvious problems:

  • making spare parts available to 3rd party opens a risk that the 3rd party purchases out the stock and can then sell with unlimited margin, or the 3rd party will just be bad and damages EVEs image (all happened before)

  • spare parts are goods same as others, for example under EU law the seller has to provide the legal warranty of 2 years (1 year for wear off parts), now, this is tricky as how will you make sure the customer does not damage the part by incorrect manipulation and opens a warranty case then, per EU law the burden of proof is on the side of the seller within 6 months after the sale…

  • it is a common thing within the business that spare parts are refurbished parts (repaired, or used (removed from returned machines (there is a return right of 2 weeks for consumers in EU by online purchase)). I am not sure on this one, but this may mean legal complications - the team would need to check with their lawyers, in the case refurbished spare parts should be sold

  • spare parts are basically the stock that is kept for warranty cases, the catch is that EVE will not want to sell out their stock, because in a warranty case they would need to replace the system as a whole then or return the purchase price (may differ by countrys law)

Now, let us think about what could be a good model to sell spare parts, so that we minimize risks for EVE and for us as customers, this are my ideas:

  • the sales should be done through EVE (EVE gets the margin, we avoid issues with bad 3rd party)
  • lets bundle sales of spare parts to a system, possibly limit the amount, possibly bundle with the need that old part(s) need to be returned (where it makes sense - if the support model involves refurbishing parts)
  • lets bundle the part with a replacement kit, that would include tools needed to safely open/close the device (some gel heading pad, plastic pry tools,…) + good instructions (serious youtube videos?)

Any other ideas?
*And sorry if it seems that i am over-complicating things…

Adding @Team as i think the discussion around support is a bit stalling, and i am wondering if lets say once the units production starts we can have the team and the community to focus on the support model, and/or to promote this discussion so that we gather as much ideas/discuss as much stuff as possible before support starts to be needed (to support backers, to be defined before official sales starts for non-backers).


I would prefer a combination of these two ideas you mentioned:

I would make the instruction videos with free availability and not only in combination with the kit (you can see what you will need to du before you buy the parts, if ist too hard, then you will not do it yourself). And I would offer the tools in addition to the replacement parts but optional. So you are not forced to buy (and pay for) tools you already have.


Oh, agree, i should have placed the instruction videos on a separate line, i.e. the videos should be available to everyone, not just for someone who purchases a part.
Thanks for pointing that out.


@iKirin you may wish to update the FAQ on warranty period with this slightly more extensive answer on warranty periods.


Well, I doubt the CEO of a manufacturer company will be there to represent yourself :smile: so you will have a court of yourself vs. a professional lawyer - good luck on that :smiley:
Anyway, this is offtopic.

The problem is that at some time, Eve will have to free up their warehouse for other products. And then you won’t be able to get replacement parts anymore… But there are eBay sellers who do just that for a living - buy replacement parts in bulk and store them in their warehouse, until someone needs to buy one. And of course, sell it for a slightly higher price. That is a perfect way to get replacement parts without requiring Eve to keep their warehouse occupied with them.

It’s pretty similar here in Lithuania… But at least they extend your warranty if you ask them (for example, if the device spends 3 weeks with them, you can ask them to extend your warranty by 3 weeks).


Have you been at Small Claims Court?
I was, against our house builder (warranty issue). I was there by myself (it was after 1 year in Canada - English is not my first language actually it is the 5th one - after Czech, German, Slovak, Russian …). Company had a lawyer and based of comments from the judge, it was one thing why he got them higher fine.