[Step 2] Let's talk about features!

+1 for this. Simple and functional. If this feature was included it would affect my opinion on 3.5mm or USB-C for audio though if the HPs only have one port. I wouldn’t want it with USB only because I wouldn’t be able to charge and listen via BT at the same time. If we can have a charging port and 3.5mm that would ideal. Don’t know how much that adds to cost though.

I’ve had no problems with the built in mics on any of my headphones. A removable boom is a neat idea but I wouldn’t want it without having a built in mic as well. If the boom was an optional addon like the AirMod adapter shown above that would be a good solution…only buy it if you want it.

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I’m kind of surprised that nobody mentioned it yet, but for wireless headphones being able to switch between devices effortlessly is a key feature for me.
I often switch between my laptop for videos or music while working to my phone for podcasts, and with the cheap Philips headset I currently use, this requires turning it off, turn on into pairing mode, go to bluetooth settings on the device and try to connect before the previous device steals the connection. It’s not a great user experience.
Ideally, I’d like the headphones to be connected to all devices simultaneously, so that I don’t even have to think about which device it currently is connected to, but if that is impossible/too hard/expensive an easy way to switch between paired devices would be great.

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I would opt for just via Button press, since this would drastically improve battery life and it is not that inconvenient. With Google assistant it is possible to enable always listening with every headphone, but it reduces battery life a lot…

I would really like to see usb c. Since it is the new standard to have only need one cable for everything. If it is 5 bucks more (in the final product) to solder on the USB C connector, it is worth it in my opinion, for convenience. Wireless charging would be nice to have, but I do not think that it is essiental on headphone. Since nö Quickcharging should be needed on such a small battery the difference between Micro B and USB C would really just be the connector itself.
What is essential in my opinion, is that the Headset is usable when connected to a charger.

Actually I cannot even imagine how this could work with a Headset, since it is much bigger, heavier and bulkier than a pen. And personally I really do not like the charging of the Apple pen, but that’s just a opinion.


Having Apt x HD would be great, since it is really important for high end bt Audio to have good Codecs, since the old fashioned cable which would benefit from a good Phone dac is sadly dying…

I understood it as submergable. Thats why I said I do not want that Feature.

What about putting some AAA accumulators inside that are replacable by the User but are also charged through the headphones usb c port? It would be super easy to get a replacement and easy to swap out on the go.


Another Feature that just comes into my mind is to have multiple devices connected to the Headset to play Audio. For example my Phone and my V. I currently have the Teufel Cage and the Feature with Sound from USB and the headphone Jack at the same time is great for working on my PC and answering calls at the same time.
@arthurrump you beat me to it, but what you are suggesting is great in my opinion :slightly_smiling_face:
You will need a Limit to how many devices the Headset is concurrently connected for bandwidth reasons, but three (or even two) devices would be more than enough for most use cases.

Thanks @pauliunas and its great to see you back I just wanted to link the Video as well :wink:

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We could have a slide-out (think of a USB stick) or flip-out (think laptop chargers).

And personally I really do not like the charging of the Apple pen, but that’s just a opinion.

Its not the prettiest thing in the world, but being able to top up from the phone itself when you dont have any cable could be a lifesaver.

Another Feature that just comes into my mind is to have multiple devices connected to the Headset to play Audio. For example my Phone and my V.

It is actually a Bluetooth feature, I think most recent headsets can do that.

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That YouTube review is really interesting, Kee. Mainly because it showed what headphones are like these days. I’ve had the same headphones for so long the state of the art has changed a lot and I’d no idea.

The Taotronics in the video are pretty much what I imagine the Eve headphones should be, except the Eve ones would be more expensive and better. The features would be pretty much the same, though.

After seeing (and hearing) what they’re like, I’m really intrigued by the idea of wireless headphones and even ones with ANC. It would be pretty cool to wear them in a coffee shop like he did in his tests and hear nothing but music, or even nothing at all!

But the three of the headphones in the video were a bit deficient in some areas. None of them looked that comfortable, especially for someone with a huge head like me. And none of them reproduced music that well. The Bose was the best of the three, but that’s not saying a lot. What I’d like from Eve headphones more than anything else is accurate sound reproduction, with (using his terms) a decent sound stage and good resolution. Other features like ANC are important as well, but not the first priority.

But then again, I’m imagining some kind of zero sum product where you can’t have everything you want. If Eve can do great sound reproduction and great ANC, and make it more comfortable to wear than the headphones in the video, that would be a truly exceptional product.

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Just finished reading all of your comments and watching videos! Truly awesome input!

First of all @pauliunas happy community cake day! :birthday: It’s great to see you back!
I really loved the video you shared as it summarised wireless headphone market super well. I recommend everyone take a look. Despite it being lengthy it’s full of valid points.

I want to share my opinion about sound quality here. I think great audio quality as the artist intended it is super important. We use music to get inspired, motivated or remember some of the life changing moments. I think all consumers deserve to experience great audio quality. There has always been a separation between Audiophile and “everyone else” in terms of music quality. The main problem I think is that “everyone else” hasn’t had a chance to experience good audio quality. I am sure that if they did they would never go for worse products. The issue here is that for the most consumers Beats and Bose are marketed as premium and they think that it’s the best market has to offer. Same goes for every technology, once you played your favourite game on a OLED screen you can’t go back, once you listened to your favourite song in great headphones you won’t be able to listen to it again in basic pair of cans. Good audio quality doesn’t have to be expensive. It can be made affordable enough for people to enjoy. Hardware doesn’t cost much, technology for creating sound is ancient.

Now good question some of you asked in how will Eve achieve good audio quality without having 30+ years of audio experience? We have already found few good independent audio labs with engineers from Sennheiser, Audeze, B&W, etc. that can help us achieve it. We are also talking to Lee form VE monks on tuning our headphones to sound right:)

I agree with @jsrail and @Patrick_Hermawan that we should provide more technical details on what different codecs mean and what is possible to achieve with ANC.

@arthurrump brought up a very good point too as currently switching between various sources is a terrible experience. Especially with from/to Windows.

@Kee brought up a good video! I think that both Bose and Taotronics fail to deliver minimum accepted audio performance in terms of what we are trying to make and would fit in to the gap outlined by creator of video @pauliunas shared.

I’ve been marking down some of the must haves for the product we are making:

Must Haves:

  • Bluetooth 5.0

  • USB-C for charging

  • Replacable earpads

  • Wow Audio Quality

  • Battery life 15h+ (keep light in mind)

  • Clear noise cancelling mics for calls

  • APTx HD, LDAC and other codecs

  • 3,5 mm cable for music

  • Charge and play music

  • Play music when out of battery through AUX

  • ANC

  • Foldable design for compact storage

  • Easy audio switching between devices easy pairing experience

  • Comfortable for long time period

And it feels it’s not easy to find a product to match most of these.
I have created a separate thread for us to look for product in the market to match our “Must Haves”

Join the discussion here:

In the meantime let’s continue the discussion about the features. What are your thoughts on the “must have list”?

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Hope that list includes water proofing, otherwise it is looking solid.

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It’s all good dude! I learn a lot from you and many others here. Please keep the tech talk going. :grin:

Welcome aboard smellycat! Welcome to the madhouse! hehehe

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Here are some fast read for people wanting basic understanding of some audio codecs:

https://majorhifi.com/what-are-codecs-bluetooth-audio-codecs-explained

List of all codecs, explore for detail understanding:

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Just wanted to chime in here: Paul, glad to have you back. You always had great arguments and brought lots of insight to the community.

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There’s a LOT of bogus, false, misleading, misinformed, maligned, slanted, and fanboy information in this topic. Some of it laughable. As an audio engineer I feel I must say so. Some have misinterpreted, misrepresented codecs, lossless, MP3, AAC, Bluetooth capabilities, and more… Also the favoring of one high end brand over another is subjective at best, IE. comparisons between Bose/Sony/B&W/Sennheiser and others…pointless. Everybody’s ears are different. It’s simple. Try them, if you like them buy them, if you don’t, return them. I have my favorites, chances are yours may differ. Good hunting.

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There’s a LOT of bogus, false, misleading, misinformed, maligned, slanted, and fanboy information in this topic. Some of it laughable. As an audio engineer I feel I must say so.

If you find a mistake, correct them. Tell why they are wrong, and how it should be done correctly.

Saying “everybody here is wrong because I am a pro” adds absolutely nothing to the table. Probably negative.

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Just a random thought but… how would this affect the audio quality? Acoustics is very important in headphone design, and rattling batteries wouldn’t help at all. Usually this type of batteries are suspended between some kind of springs, to make them easy to pop in and out, but I’m worried that those springs could somehow negatively affect the audio performance. I might be paranoid and talking nonsense though :wink:

If only it were that easy :wink:
apart from that, I do agree with you that everyone hears differently, but it is also true that pretty much everyone can appreciate their headphones’ ability to reproduce sound the way it was intended. It’s like going to a live concert vs. listening to an old recording warped by the storage medium, recording and playback devices… live concert will always sound better, as much as you like your equipment, because it’s the way it was intended to be heard. Now, we all know there is no pair of headphones in the world that can perfectly reproduce any kind of sound, any kind of genre etc., but what I’m trying to say here is that all that beats dre whatever crap with baked in bass boost is just bollocks because it can’t reproduce anything well except solo drums (no cymbals, just plain low pitch drums). So brand judgement is not always right, but sometimes can be justified. It is also widely known that Sennheiser makes one of the best lines of entry level audiophile headphones, because they’re fairly good at playing all across the frequency spectrum while having a bit of a “warm” flavor that prevents them from feeling dull or flat. It’s just what most people are used to, but better. Again, not saying everyone should buy it, but Eve here won’t make a pair of headphones for each and every community member according to their individual tastes, so they have to choose a way to attract the most buyers, and going by the most popular flavor is just logical. If you can only sell one kind of ice cream, it better be vanilla.

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I would (and others) be all ears for your thoughts on each point you raise. I am hoping that you and others will be a plethora of information in the headphone project. If you as a professional could design your own headphones what would you want and not want?

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I doubt that this is a problem, since the batteries/accumulators will have a really tight fit through the spring design. If they would start rattling, beats would not have done it. Even though they are not known for good audio quality :wink: If it turns out to be a real concern, it should be possible to cussion them with some foam on the lid and on the inside.

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I’m not worried about the batteries audibly rattling. The problem is way more subtle - the spring is tight, but it’s still a spring and it might be in constant motion when you move around. Not the batteries, just the springs. And or course it’s not a problem for “beats”… they don’t care about quality!

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My main design criteria for IEM’s and headphones, used for critical listening, is something close to a ruler flat frequency response in the audible range. I want to hear what I am listening to, to be as close to what the musicians, producers, and engineers intended. Also if I am listening to something I am working on, I want to hear exactly what is on the “tape”. Not a hyped or deficient rendition, as this may induce coloration I do not want or intend. Speakers must also be flat, and the room treated acoustically. For both headphones and speakers this sort of response can only be achieved with wires. Again this is my criteria. Many prefer what they perceive as a more ‘lively’ sound for casual listening and that is fine. Or they may not want to be tied to a wire.

With all of that said, it’s not an easy task to create headphones. Other criteria come into play such as ear size, head size, comfort, open back, closed back, impedance (often overlooked), balanced, unbalanced. There’s no such thing as a perfect headphone or IEM for all. There are many very good sounding wired headphones is the $100-$150 range. We use them in the studio with musicians all the time. They are brands that you know going back many years. They are great for casual listening and relatively flat. It’s that extra 15% that costs the big bucks for critical listening.

I like having active noise reduction for planes, or when listening to something while somebody else is watching TV. Other than that I’d rather know what is going on around me. :sunglasses:

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why can’t flat FR be achieved wirelessly? It doesn’t change the drivers, and the DAC/amp can be made transparent. Couple that with a transparent encoding and you get totally transparent, ruler flat FR :slight_smile:

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I just checked with some of the major vendors and actually we can have 3,5mm audio jack music by pass. So basically if plugged with cable headphones won’t use inbuilt amp/DAC but an external one so that gives more flexibility. I’ll have more comments soon. So far Bluetooth 5 seems most challenging and I am not sure if there is real benefit to it. (Audio will be most challenging if course in terms of execution)

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