[Step 1] Finding the perfect panel!

#47

There are quite a few preferences being aired here for cosmetic features, and I’ve no problem with that, but can I ask that we always give functionality, practicality and build quality a higher priority.

Having a piece of kit that looks cool is great but if it doesn’t work as it should it might as well be in the bin.

The other problem with cosmetic attributes is that they’re very subjective so, unless there’s quite a bit of unanimity in the community, there would often need to be options available.

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#48

Lets keep this thread to the panel only. I am sure there will be a time and place for the cosmetics and features.

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#49

I think that OLED would be amazing, but I doubt that the average consumer would care or have a big enough draw to the technology to warrant the price premium. I very likely could be wrong though, Eve has a history of an extremely aggressive price cut over competing manufactures.

Project Vision? Because It’s a “vision” of the future.

#50

HDR 10+ support is also equally important as well since most user plan to use as professional editing equipment and it’s royalty-free to implement for the product.

#51

Most TVs have higher response time, input lag and refresh rate.
All of these are important for monitors since you are constantly interacting with them, but not so for TVs which are merely streaming a video stream.

#52

Has anyone looked into a QLED panel from Samsung? It may be significant cheaper than an OLED panel, should have a longer lifespan due, and has great potential for a large color gamut. Its QLED is still VA tech so its viewing angles arenr quite IPS or OLED levels, but thats not terrible. I havent read a ton on QLED, but from what Ive seen so far, a QLED 1440p monitor with killer color calibration could be the way to go.

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#53

Hdr10 requires 1000 nits panel. Which is insanely high for a monitor. It’s possible but not common or cheap. Plus the amount of local dimming required also drives the price up.

I’m not saying I don’t want it or that it’s bad. But it might not be worth the drawbacks. Which will be discussed at a later point, this is just to manage your and mine hopes

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#54

HDR 10+ will be able to produce a vastly expanded range of color shades, reducing overtly obvious gradations between shades. Subtle shading helps to make a scene look far more realistic

For OLED panel, It doesn’t necessarily require to be 1000 nits because the alliance can qualify as HDR 10 with more than 540 nits brightness and less than 0.0005 nits black level.

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#55

But then you need an oled panel which has its own sets of issues mentioned in the topic.

I do see the allure of oled but the drawbacks are also huge.

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#56

I didn’t find the survey very well planned, it was pretty impossible to pick something well balanced and downright had confusing options. So here is what kind of monitor I’d love to buy, based on my about 20 years as a PC enthusiast that works or games on PC most of his time.

  • Purpose: work and entertainment - ie well rounded
  • Size: Quite subjective, but my personal sweetspots are 1080p for 24", 1440p for 27", and 4K for 32". That being said, my personal favourite is 1080p 24" as it’s a good balance between fidelity and system requirements when it comes to gaming. 1440p I avoid as it’s not great for consuming video content, most of which is 1080p or 4k when you care about quality - 1440p being in the middle means you are stuck with the appalling up/down-scaling that monitors do.
  • Panel: IPS or VA - as long as it has decent response time (8ms is fine) and quite good colour accuracy, and obviously being decent panel to begin with. No one likes to play the panel lottery (ie get excessive light bleed or uniformity issues). But please, no TN or OLED. TN is just terrible if you actually want to enjoy your monitor instead of it being just a means to an end. As for OLED - this is a terrible idea for PC, too much static content and monitors are not something people replace every year or two. MicroLED is the best option we know of, but it’s going to be a long wait till it becomes viable for monitors and reaches decent prices. OLED took like 10 years to get a decent market share in the TV industry, so maybe in 10-15 years we will have MicroLED monitors. I sure hope it comes faster though.
  • Colour reproduction: would love to get a monitor with decent HDR and great colour reproduction - at least sRGB, realistically ideally DCI-P3. I realise without OLED that will be difficult, especially since HDR standardisation is all over the place right now, but even just plain HDR500/600 will be a good start… if the colour accuracy and local dimming can be decent too, not some half-baked implementation just to tick some boxes.
  • Refresh rate: 60hz is perfectly fine, but 144hz is my upper limit for high refresh rate. Let’s be honest, higher than that is pointless to the average consumer. Even above 60hz has questionable benefits for non-professional/competitive gamers. Yes, you can notice 60+ being a bit smoother, but is it really worth the extra cost in both PC requirements and monitor price? Consoles have thrived for ages on 30 and 60FPS.
    Response time / latency: Same applies for response time. I know people love to bicker about 1ms vs 4ms vs 8ms etc - it’s all fine. A few milliseconds aren’t a game changer. Accurate colours and good viewing angle easily trumps a few milliseconds faster response time for all but the professional gamers, but this isn’t a monitor for some hardcore gamers niche - it’s for the masses.
  • Cost: if you can tick the above boxes I think you can charge a nice premium. Obviously just showing up in the market with a new brand and expensive product won’t be easy, but if the reviews are favourable I think it can work out.

I personally can’t live with poor colours, contrast, and viewing angles. A monitor’s single purpose is to display things, if it can’t do that well - what’s the point? Like renting a hotel room with a stone bed.

Edit: some extra stuff
Nice to haves:

  • Thin bezels on the side for the multimonitor folks.
  • Stand that supports portrait mode.
  • Profile buttons (hardware ones) - check out Samsung CFG73. It has 3 profile buttons on the bottom, super handy as I can easily change to a profile meant for current lighting conditions in my room (ie sunny day / gloomy day / night).
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#57

Perfect panel would be able to fold up to be half the size when you want to transport it. That would be really great but probably not ready for main stream yet :confused:

#58

I am a huge fan of LG and Dell’s 38" 3840 x 1600 form factor, but I wish it were a bit smaller, 32" would be wonderful.

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#59

Very good suggestion!

We have talked with a few panel suppliers, what you are writing is in their product lines. Let’s see when and how I can share those specs to the community (because there is NDA in place…)

Just one comment:

IPS can also do HDR10, 99%DCI-P3, it’s just cost as expensive as OLED

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#60

I believe this can only be achieved with FALD (local dimming), which in that case, OLED would be far superior especially given theyre the same price

#61

It doesn’t seem to be affecting too many people. Despite how many OLED TVs have been sold over the past two-three years and it’s fairly safe to infer it as negligible for the majority of customers. The benefits of OLED panel outweigh any of its cons.

For instance, Black to white luminance response time is crucial for content creator which DisplayHDR True Black tiers also leverage OLEDs in one other way: response times. The standard requires a black-to-white response time of 2 frames for OLEDs, as opposed to 8 frames for LCDs. This again reflects the technology: the LED backlights in an LCD unfortunately take some time to ramp up, whereas OLED is virtually instantaneous.

#62

A PC has way more static elements then a TV has, this is the major concern for most OEM’s for abstaining on an OLED screen. I’m not up-to-date with the latest developments of OLED tech, I’m also unsure what level Eve can even get the OLED panels. It does offer some USP’s for sure! But I’m not really willing to pay the early adopter tax on it. I’m also unsure if there even is an manufacturer that offers 27-32" OLED, though I’m pretty sure there are some because it’s included in the poll.

However, I tend to keep my screen for quite some time (current one is 10 years old). I don’t see OLED beating any of the other tech in that regard. All in all, OLED has some major pro’s, but also some drawbacks that make it not the optimal tech at this point, in my opinion.

Also, if you have some good sources on OLED on high refresh rates, input latencies and black-white transitions I’d love to read more on it.

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#63

“Project Phoenix” There is an anime out recently where a mage uses fire fairies to travel home (don’t know if I can say its name) in the shape of a Phoenix or birdlike creature made of fire. Since watching this section and the bright and amazing colors of red, orange and such flying above the white clouds was just breathtaking! I have replayed that segment while watching that episode many times just cause that bird of fire is damn cool looking.

Anyway, I’m not as knowledgeable about monitors so I will limit what I say here. I would use external monitors for word and excel doc prep and anime streaming mostly. Price is somewhat important because even the cheaper monitors that are 32"-40" look fine to me with my eyesight as long as they refresh decently and the colors are not too mushy.

I throw my name “Project Phoenix” in the ring (I hope nobody else said it already-I didn’t see it as of now), but my other monitor points are not too big a deal. I refer to the professionals here.

#64

So finally EVE is going to resolve my predicament with monitors.
Here are my suggestions for the monitor

  • Screen and resolution:
    I am using my monitor for office working and gaming as well. For the second reason the monitor should have at least a 27" screen with a resolution of 1440p or 2160p(4K). Lower resolution does not make any sense. For gaming a refresh rate of 144 Hz or 120 Hz would be highly recommended and only affordable with a 1440p resolution. (Or isn’t it?)

Btw. What do you think is better with a 31", 4K or 1440?

  • Ports:
    (Sry a little bit off topic but now go on). When it comes to ports I wish it would have at least 2 Displayport connections. 2 normal sized or 1 normal sized and 1 mini-DP, because there are not so many displays with 2 DP connections. VGA and DVI are legacy technology and can be thrown away.
    1 HMDI port would be enough. (What you would think?)
    Maybe 2 USB ports on the side with high power for charging my phone and a TB3 display connection.

Stand:
It should be variable in height and the stand can be rotated.

#65

It’s really interesting to see so many people wanting OLED…
OLED is nice to look at but…
Let’s say that the burn in is no issue anymore and the contrast and sharpness and blacks and colors are beyond anything.
But it’s like looking through the sunglasses all the time.
It’s like having filter on all of the time.
It just isn’t real!
TN panels is BAD.
VA panel has great contrast, sharpness, blacks, colors…
But one has to be in the “sweet spot” dead center all of the time! The viewing angles are really really BAD.
IPS is still the best way to go.

And the ex Sharp IGZO. (still IPS jftrecord)
Ratio of 16:10 is the best but more expensive because of how the factory panels are cut into smaller ones and that ratio produces more rejects.
I am saying all of this out of experience so don’t be mad at me :grimacing:

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closed #66

The next step of the development process takes place here.