One thing more and V will be my dream device!


#21

Yeah that is quite right. Some people need different comfort levels than others to feel “comfortable”. I tried using my prototype on my lap and it kept wobbling side to side, back and forth etc., way more than a laptop. In order to use it, I had to sit still like a rock, and it was still uncomfortable as the keyboard was way too close to my belly. I’m also very careful with my devices, so it really makes me nervous when something is not as stable as it could be. And when using Eve V on my lap, I felt exactly that.


#22

while some of ur points are valid, or even very valid, this one is highly subjective and to use it as generalisation, is less than what I expect from a smart guy like you :wink:

I am more in this camp. Not as comfortable as a laptop, but definitely usable (as long as I’m wearing trousers, with shorts and the pale skin, the digging starts to hurt over time).


#23

try ductape.
Warning: only use on trousers, not on hairy legs !:grin:


#24

I agree. Surface Pro 5 is very comfortable to use on the lap.


#25

Puzzles me why people buy a 2 in 1 when they don’t even like the form factor


#26

simply , due to portability and easy using like tablet !
I’m using right now my HP Elitebook x360 ( which is convertible but not detachable ) , high performance , great productivity and all things are ok , except that when I want to use it more like a tablet I don’t feel comfortable holding 13.3 inches 1.2 KG device with my on hand and drawing with the HP active pen using the other hand .
but incase of Detachable laptops you have great portability to use it completely like a tablet but when you need to use its keyboard ( and I believe that many of detachable devices buyers use their devices almost any where so using the keyboard on their laps must be expected ) you won’t get same productivity as using convertibles !


#27

The reasons I chose the V was because of:-
Good looking design features
Technical specifications
Screen sharpness
Touch Screen
Battery life
My perception of the build quality (I would have preferred Magnesium, however aluminium is proven by Apple and others in their construction anyway)
Portability
Price.

Price was of least concern to me.

My decision was based on these facts and in that order, and I felt good about (even excited) by the way the way the V looked.
Of course I am just like everyone else when buying. My decision was based on emotion and later justified with logic.

BTW, I rarely, if ever use a device on my lap.

So far my decision seems to be correct despite the delay and the wait, and so far nobody seems to have caught up or beaten what I have ordered.
Though Surface Pro and and the Book was getting close. (In the Surface case they are a bit too expensive by comparison)

If Eve had a matching, Mouse and Dock, this would be the perfect setup.


#28

why you preferred magnesium alloy to aluminium ?


#29

IIRC because of heat dissipation and the possibility to anodize it instead of painting it…


#30

Wait, isn’t it the other way around? Aluminum was chosen because of those qualities, not in spite of them, no?


#31

Some people prefer magnesium alloys for their strength and lightness, but it has drawbacks. Aluminum is stable and won’t corrode in its pure form. It is also a lightweight and strong material capable of dissipating heat quickly. Magnesium is water-soluble and corrodes in the atmosphere, so it needs to be alloyed for use in structural/body components. Even though magnesium is normally lighter than Aluminum (specific gravity 1.7 vs 2.7), it has less thermal conductivity and alloying will only increase the weight and decrease the throughput for heat dissipation.

dibadibadu is correct, magnesium does not take well to anodizing due to corroding in the water bath. Magnesium surfaces are usually coated (with ceramic or another metal), which further reduces the thermal conductivity.


#32

Yes, but the question was why masters888 preferred magnesium to aluminum, so that reply answers why someone would prefer aluminum to magnesium (so backwards)


#33

Because 360 hinge 2in1s are too expensive, that’s my reason.
Not everyone likes this form factor. But also, don’t forget that not everyone has a better choice. Sometimes you just have to pick the lesser evil.


#34

yes you are right :slight_smile:

Magnesium was inferior in all aspects but slightly lighter in weight


#35

@Poda @dibadibadu @mlivesey @Mike
Why I prefer magnesium over aluminium.

First I will cover some of the points raised here.

The point about corrosion is actually false.

Corrosion with magnesium when using the latest modern alloys and processes available today particularly in consumer products would not be a factor this side of 10 to 20 years, maybe more.

You probably will have thrown your device away by then. It would have to be severely scratched and exposed to the elements for some time to even start to corrode.

Water solublility and igniting problems only relate to Magnesium as a raw state where it is highly volatile if caused to be lit with a flame. It burns very strongly with a very bright whitish flame and difficult to extinguish. Raw magnesium is ideally covered in oil to prevent corrosion.

To ignite consumer grade Magnesium alloys requires a temperature some 100+ degrees centigrade higher than a burning lithium ion battery. Even then it probably would not ignite as consumer grade is actually an alloy, and more likely melt.

Magnesium is more expensive and a more difficult product to work with however it is stronger and lighter than aluminium. And better and tighter tolerances can be achieved in the case design.

Microsoft are not fools and I guess that one of their initial design briefs was too build a superior product to the Apple. This probably is another of the reasons why they use magnesium instead of aluminium. They use a process which I think is called liquid magnesium which is very fast chilled after molten state. This creates a very high grade product with a minimal amount of crystals forming during the cooling process, though its said be more expensive.

In my opinion when I have handled any Surface device I love the feel and finish off the metal case. It is superb and feels superior to the Apple devices.

Silver coloured magnesium as a case or body colour is great because if it is scratched then the scratch would hardly show up as the colour underneath is exactly the same as the colour on top.

Yes magnesium is not able to be anodised, this is mostly and aluminium process however colours are able to be applied as obviously shown in the surface range.

It is certainly not inferior to Aluminium!

There is lots on the web about the subject of Magnesium vs Aluminium.


#36

You didn’t even mention cooling… Surface Pro tablets use mostly active cooling. The M3 models use passive cooling but there’s plenty of throttling. That shows how much worse the thermal dissipation is.

As for the feel, it really depends on surface finish rather than the material itself. The material might influence the temperature, so the device would feel warmer or colder depending on it, but since both are metal, there shouldn’t be much of a difference. I mean they both feel cold when you come from outdoors in winter. And the surface finish… the same can be achieved with both materials.


#37

Except i5 Surface Pro 2017 is one of the few i5 devices that is completely passive.

Certainly looks to me that it’s dissipating heat better than the V (which will throttle when it ramps up to anywhere near U-class TDP).

Almost like the case material is one of the least important factors in thermal design (or else every single phone would use aluminium and hook it up to their heatsinks, instead of the current popularity of using thermally insulating glass).


#38

Except that it’s not really much better. While the Surface Pro i5 is having a short-burst that’s higher than the V (due to the U-class CPU) it’s sustained performance is at ~7W which - is pretty much what the Core-Y CPU is having at default. And let’s not talk about the dip to below 7W of performance it shows before going up to ~7W. (Talking about Core Y 7W of performance - I don’t have a Surface i5 so I can’t check what the actual power consumption is)

I think in a small Prime95 test (which is not representitive due to the fact that it heats up the CPU more than any other tests I did on e.g. my Ryzen CPU at home) the V could sustain ~9W of load without throtteling.


#39

I said better, not “much better”.
Paulinus’ post suggests that it should be worse due to a magnesium chasis.

Of course, you’ve done the testing, and you have the numbers. What scores can V achieve on sustained Cinebench tests at 9W? Is it better or worse than the passive i5 Surface Pro?


#40

And completely throttled.

Erm, read the above comment.

No they wouldn’t, because the TDP of the CPUs used in those phones doesn’t come anywhere close to 7W, or even to 4.5W. It’s typically 2-3W…

Also, look around and you’ll see many reviews complaining about Chinesium bumper cases resulting in metal phones overheating. Most flagship phones with really fast processors are made of Aluminium or other metal, and if you slap a cheap bumper case with poor thermal properties on them, they actually become quite hot and sometimes even start rebooting because of too high temperature.