One liner update 06.12



I had the same issue :confused:


(1) Nobody really knew how good or bad 4PX could be.
The web generally says they are good and relatively big. I may have picked them also.
It’s too difficult to explain here on this forum and it’s irrelevant to the other members at the end of the day.

(2) No logistics company would sign such a contract and will tell you to go elsewhere.
They really are not that interested.

(3) They don’t really care about order size, and a small order or a big order is really just another customer.
(unless you are one of their top 10 or 20 customers)
No big deal to them.

This is the real world and that’s business unless you are a Giant in the industry and can wield a really big cheque book.

I wish business was as simple and easy you think, then it would be simple, but it’s nowhere near that simple, or easy.


And given Chinese culture issues of loss of face come into it


These are some of the biggest and top International freight couriers in the world :-
FedEx (USA)
United States Postal Service
DHL (Europe and worldwide)
TNT (Europe, Australia)
Royal Mail

There are many thousands of small ones and it’s like finding a needle in a hay stack.

Maybe Eve might even have to arrange a private fulfillment company in China to do all the packing and organising, rather than trust a courier/logistics company.

That’s probably what I would do but this will take some time and trial and error to get right.

I know they are under tremendous pressure from the community members to go faster and perform.
It’s not at all surprising with this kind of pressure for them that they feel they don’t have the luxury and time to do any better than they have.

This is all so new and they have to find solutions or they will get crucified again by the members if they look like they made a mistake. When in fact they didn’t make a mistake and they did the best they know how.

Some community members are very, very unforgiving and some of members are armchair specialists who work in some theoretical world that does not exist.

Unfortunately these members have no idea how cut throat it is in the real world of Chinese business, where win/win is is not a consideration. In China it’s often I win, you lose, if you don’t know what you are doing. Some will virtually eat you alive and take all your money.

The Chinese culture of losing face is so powerful there. It’s unbelievable the lengths they go to not to look wrong when clearly they are. And you can’t call them or expose them on it as they will make your life hell for making them lose face. And they will not help or do business with you again and they will tell their colleagues to avoid you as well.

The trick is the opposite. Make them look like heroes and they will look after you. They love being told how good they are, even if they are not so good.

Old saying:- _A pat on the back is only a few vertebrae removed from a kick in the pants*__. But way better result.

I would strongly suggest they ask Microsoft or someone who is doing what they are doing and see if they have any recommendations on the best solutions. Microsoft might be more disposed to help as they are an early helper and investor. I’m never above asking for help from the experts.



I appreciate for insight tips and sharing experience in real world.

But I vote for moving on to other logistic company, unless they want to replay the mistake with screen manufactor. Got some bad experience in middle/large scale business with some companies with chinese root(sorry no offense here). Cheap deal first, but then you need to toss more money/time to get what you expect/describe in contract.

It maybe tight for Eve to switch contract right now, but at least they should think ahead about the future for middle/large scale growth.


As mentioned by @Konstantinos we’ll at least stick with 4PX for the LB.

I personally think this is also due to the fact that if we’d change the fulfillment partner now we’d face delays for sure with no chance of delivery before christmas.
They did well for the shirts - which is the reason why I’m willing to give them another shot with the LB.
We’ve seen them at least forward the instructions to all warehouses to check that the packaging is properly applied - not like the first few HEB in europe got them…


I agree!

Keep with them for now and have a pleasant discussion about your expectations and see if they can do better.

Promise bigger things to come and make them feel good about helping you.

We all know the worst of what to expect and hopefully it will get better, .

In the meantime try to find other alternative solutions.

Call Microsoft and ask them what to do?
We have nothing to lose by asking, and everything to gain.


Do you mean Chinese New Year - 16th Feb 2018 - or European New Year - 1st Jan?


Have they also been asked to speed up the packaging, as it is taking a very long time for them to handover to DHL. Or are you aware of when they expect to have completed sending the HEB to DHL?


So Vs with 1TB SSDs will probably come after Christmas?


I have no idea why i’m tagged in your post ._.

I can see the logic in this, best of luck in your negotiations with them.


This will be very inflammatory, but educational:


We have produced 400 Vs more now. We have 800 limited bird Vs now already!


Did they provided a target shipment date for the whole lot?

Also, when available, how will the production be organized?

  1. will you wait for all “standard” Vs (means non-1TB) to be completed, if not yet, before shifting to 1TB?
  2. will the HEB-1Tb be prepared and shipped in priority? (It would seem logic to me although not my advantage as EB :wink: )


@Konstantinos that’s the best news I’ve had all week.

What is the critical number before you put the first of those into the distribution system? I’m going to assume you’ll ship in batches rather than stockpile 1000’s of devices…


Konstantinos used NSAID! Will it be effective?!


Did you just make a joke with the “inflammatory” post before and antiinflammatory drugs? :joy:


This is the WORST shipping service out of China to the US I have ever experienced. The best was HP, 5 days. Even small packages going through regular mail arrive in 7 to 10 days. Many of the items I have ordered come from very small vendors who drop their items off for mailing personally and they still arrive faster. This is a very bad learning experience for EVE which is unfortunately affecting most of us who are still waiting. I’ve taken my party hat off.


You’re still having your party hat on with my christmas theme :thinking::grin:


Really, is the second time around that EVE had the bad luck of finding partners that do not seem to know how to run their business properly. Is like they either don’t like making money, or don’t value eve for being a small company… Is hard for me to believe the first, so it must be the third because I plainly refuse to think the second option is the correct one.

Just a few questions: Do you guys know if the 4PX problems are located on certain countries/locations or is the same everywhere? A few stats could be nice. maybe opening a poll or two for the HEBs to be able to put their two cents.

that taken off my chest.

Congrats on the ramped up production level and all the other good news, lets not let the bad one eclipse the others. Waiting for the 16th of december update.!