On the virtues of a cloud-connected future


#1

I’d imagine it would be a lot simpler just to have heatpipes for the non-actively cooled usage, then a direct port to the cooling block for the watercooling to connect into when you are docking for more intense usage. Watercooling a mobile device seems like an overkill solution though. Why would you want to overspend on a single ‘phone’ that has huge amounts of processing power and risk carrying that around all the time and potentially damaging it. I’d more likely imagine we will more to a more cloud based computing model in the future. Your ‘phone’ acts as an interface, then offloads heavy computation tasks to a remote (or local) server. Comms improvements would naturally facilitate much lower latency/higher datarates which would make this more feasible in the future.


Welcome New Surface Pro
Welcome New Surface Pro
#2

Because that’s the future :sunglasses: not saying we need it now, it wouldn’t really be possible. But in the future we won’t need desktops anymore. And the risk of damaging it is pretty much the same as the risk of someone breaking into my home and taking my PC… Because I’m careful with my devices.

But that way you need to pay for your computing power regularly and you always depend on external forces. If you have all the computing power yourself, you don’t need to rely on any server providing it to you. Sure you can have a server at home, but I guess I’m talking about a more distant future where we will not need a big noisy server, only a smartphone-sized device for all our needs :slight_smile:


#3

That’ll certainly be a cool future, but besides the fact that already we are hugely reliant on cloud services (and I personally like them very much too), let’s not forget that ultimately, until someone starts manufacturing your dream devices, sadly we can only use what others make for us…


#4

But when you buy something that is made by someone, from that moment it’s 100% yours and you don’t depend on anyone to keep it running.

As of now, we only use cloud for storing files that are either small or infrequently used. And not confidential. Sure some of it can be improved by fast internet access, but you still have absolutely no control over the security of your files stored there. So it’s convenient for syncing a few small not too important files, but that’s where it ends…

So, until “server in phone” arrives, I’ll stick with my desktop, tablet and phone or whatever else I need. Because that way I have 100% control over my hardware, software and files.

One could argue that some people don’t need thus control, but I’m not talking about them, I’m talking about “power users”. For others, that era is already here: they have their phones that run facebook, angry birds and Word with 10% of its core functionality, what else do they need? :smile:


#5

Do Azure, AWS etc. not count as cloud computing then? I know that you’ll point out that these are mostly utilised by professional companies, but often these kind of things filter down to consumers eventually. One such example (although unrelated) is Skype. Companies often used video conferencing way before consumers were introduced to mainstream (and stable) video chat. I think cloud computing will become more and more day-to-day in the future. Chrome already does a bit of ‘cloud computing’ to compress websites to reduce data usage on mobile - it wouldnt be hard to offload more tasks to datacenters. Obviously I depend on Google to keep services such as this running, but I have never had an issue accessing any of their services - and I could argue that you are just as dependent on you ISP to keep your internet connection running.

As for data security, I agree that cloud storage is not widely regarded as the most private of options, but again this can only be improved upon. In the early days of online banking there was a lot of distrust over security concerns, however it is now a common day-to-day use case. You have to trust that companies will not exploit your data, but (using the bank as an example again) you have to trust the bank not to lose all your money.

I agree that there will always be the 0.1% that are not satisfied with not ‘being in full control’, but then again I guess those people would just miss out on the benefits of such a system.


#6

I thought we were talking about a tablet, one which is planned on using for long hours without external connections. Otherwise we would never need batteries either. Unless someone is taking a cooling tower with them many times the size of the tablet, this would work for a stationary solution, but not for something which would work disconnected from external power and cooling solutions. So we are back to internal cooling solutions which don’t require external assistance.

Microsoft, as I understand it, has heat transferring to a fluid in a carbon fiber chassis to cool the Pro, while the V has a copper top and bottom solution to perform cooling. The copper is solid, meaning it has less of a chance of rupture (there is nothing to rupture, I guess in super long timeframes rust (oxidation) could be an issue but I gather that is far outside the life expectancy of the V.

The fluid filled carbon fiber solution is effective only while the fluid stays intact within its carbon fiber shell. Meaning any degredation of the shell will render the cooling solution impaired. Carbon fiber is sheets of carbon solidified in an epoxy shell, which can be prone to cracks with a heat differential within the carbon fiber substructure. I have no idea what the mean failure rate is, but that is a point of failure which does not exist in the V. It could prove to be a foolproof solution but only time will tell, and that could be six to eighteen months out.

The fluid solution used on other tablets is entirely different, they are active fluid filled solutions, which have an internal pump driving the fluid through reinforced piping that removes heat from the internal components. That as I understand it is very different than what Microsoft has used, which is a passive fluid filled solution covered in carbon fiber, which I guess is for weight, heat transfer and some other characteristics which have not been exposed.

This is very different than Graphene, which is a carbon tube solution which has some very interesting characteristics, but which still has some manufacturing challenges when used over any significant surfaces (first no pun intended) (more than several inches). This will be solved rather quickly, but I would doubt Microsoft would have counted on it yet. It has been used for capacitive solutions where it is only needed to cover 3 - 5" of space, it is a substrate 1 molecule thick and unfortunately can have tears in the fabric over large surface areas.

Mark


#7

Disagree - I use OneDrive for my entire work at University, so that I can access it from all my devices, no matter if osx or Windows (or android, for that matter). Same goes for my Banking work. It’s so refreshing to be able to have the files on all my computers all the time. In terms of safety, while I personally don’t use it, I have heard from a few friends that Boxcryptor works very nicely.

Besides that, just to be clear, I completely like your idea of a portable server (essentially). All I mean is we are not there yet.


#8

Same here. I have experienced data corruption before, so OneDrive provides a safety net of sorts.


#9

right !
20 characters


#10

Welll, you can always just switch ISPs without losing anything. And they don’t get your private data.

When did I say we were “there”?


#11

The markets vision is cloud, we are getting back to the client/mainframe env & it is a good thing - for me because of saving planets resources, for the commercial space to reduce costs & for more security and more reliability. You can have a mediocre laptop, you connect through a secure vpn to a cloud “mainframe” and can have the power that is much greater than that of your laptop.
This will materialize in consumer space also, the market at the moment is trying to sell cloud services as it is a new revenue source, the ultimate goal is to sneak in and make people be dependent = subscribe, pay monthly, that model is so much better for the providers than to sell, get revenue and then from the same customer not get paid ever again or at a unpredictable time + marketing costs to keep the customer…
As for me, i would love some personal cloud, you have 1 “mainframe” at home, and then you have your tablet / 2 in 1, phone, wearables, TV, IoTs… that connect to your cloud and use its storage, processing power, your tablet will have a great screen, great batt life, but does not need to have a great cpu, memory, graca…
If you need more power, expand your cloud, add an additional cpu, or buy some subscription expansion plan from your provider (HW upgrade all 3 years…)

Believe me, the market already knows that pushing for better perf in everything is a dead end, the main margin source for large players are commercial customers & niche (gaming, early adopters/enthusiasts…), regular everyday PCs are for a long time already not the main money source. With commercial customers moving into cloud, the holy grail - your business laptop with all the business specifics that are a good margin source, will fade away. The market prepares for that, has a vision to keep the money flowing, even at a higher pace.

We already start to be in the “testing / either phase”. In a couple of generations from now there will be a “take it or stay with your old version phase”, you will have a new OS version - win, android that will run from the cloud, or the core apps will run in the cloud only. From there on, the faster HW chase for your consumer device will fade. As said, the focus will go from perf to usability/experience: great screen, battery, weight, we may see 3D revival, maybe large investments into odd stuff like holograms, or super practical stuff like fold-able screens - imagine: your smart phone unfolding into a tablet…


#12

You mean all of your Internet traffic is not private? :joy:


#13

Ever heard of VPN? :slight_smile:


#14

So what’s to stop you encrypting your usage of a cloud service?


#15

If your software runs in cloud, you can’t encrypt it. You can encrypt files, but you need to decrypt them to work with them, and if that work happens in cloud, that means your decrypted data is in there too. Right in the service provider’s hands.


#16

I am no expert on the virtualization field, so no idea if hacking is possible, but per design it should not be possible to read into your virtual session even though your the owner of the host hw, sw…
In regards to data moving around, i have worked with amazon AWS (they have an awesome 1 year trial with low specs machines to be used for free) and they offer not only encryption of your data storage but too a level of encryption that makes sure that data traveling between your virtual machine and your storage is encrypted, it gets encrypted/decrypted in the virtual session on the fly.


#17

Well, the virtualization application (be it VMWare Workstation, VirtualBox, Qemu or something else) does “see” what you’re doing, otherwise it wouldn’t be working… And you have no way of verifying what software they use on the server side. Maybe they fiddled with the virtualization software and can 100% monitor your activity, what do you know?


#18

Can the same not be said for any program you install on your PC? Naturally you have to have a certain level of trust that companies are not going to be malicious in any case…


#19

No you can’t say the same because you’re free to use a firewall and monitor each app’s traffic. And also importantly, if the software developer goes down you can still use their app. If a cloud computing service goes down, you lose your computing power…


#20

You still have to trust Microsoft (or other OS provider) itself then… the point is that you have to trust someone at some point. What if your firewall is tracking your usage? And the point of the cloud is redundancy in any case… if a server (or even datacenter) goes down, there are others to use instead. If the whole system goes down, yes you are a bit stuck, but what is to stop your ISP from ‘going down’, or your PC from ‘going bang’? :grin: