New V: The hard choices

I personally don’t think having asymmetrical bezels would look well when using it with the keyboard, since the screen wouldn’t be centered.

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We acknowledge that many members want the new V to be more potent by increasing its thickness. However, there is always a trade-off to make. If the combined thickness of the new V and its keyboard excesses that of a thin gaming/workstation notebook, its mobility is inevitably lost while it cannot out-power those laptops. For another thing, device thickness corresponds with device weight. For example, we made the 1st-gen V thicker to accommodate a massive battery, and feedback from users was that it is too heavy to hold with one hand for an extended period comfortably. In conclusion, we are targeting a mobile-first device, and we will be extra vigilant about the thickness of the new V and its potential impacts.

Eliminating USB-A ports reduces the side bezel size. However, it keeps the thickness of the new V. Based on our evaluation, eliminating USB-A ports have minor impact on battery size.

We are working on a different cooling solution, which we will reveal at a later point. Besides the motherboard position shift, other limits are preventing us from sticking with our previous proposal. We will have a new concept update in the future to illustrate the changes and their reasons.

We have yet to decide the chassis material, although we are most likely to choose aluminium. As you have mentioned, aluminium is considerably cheaper to manufacture. Moreover, aluminium facilitates thermal dissipation and is suitable for CNC machining to allow high accuracy and precision.

We appreciate your creative ideas, and please pardon me for pointing out the limits. To start with, placing the motherboard under the kickstand results in about a 25% increase in device thickness. Regarding the usage of copper as the body material, no manufacturers we know have applied copper as the primary chassis material for a mobile device similar to the new V. Additionally, copper is more expensive to work with than aluminium.

We agree with you, and we are investigating current offerings.

TB3 compatibility of the new V has not been confirmed yet, and we would love it to be present as well!


Great questions and thoughts from you all! :+1: We would love to answer what you want to know about the new V wherever applicable. :ok_hand:

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Now, I am not an expert on IGZO but I was wondering how viable is it to include IGZO within the panel type you go with? Main reason being it is extremely power efficient (battery will last much longer), provides quick response time, better colours and achieves high pixel density.

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“‘IGZO’ is a display made with artificially produced transparent crystalline oxide semiconductor that Sharp is the first in the world to successfully mass produce.” Quote from Sharp. The 1st-Gen V features a screen from Sharp that is IGZO. Although I am not saying that the new V will have an IGZO display, there might be a chance. We will know when we get there:)

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Be Eve dock will be useful when worked up in due course. Meantime I agree re usb-c and usb -a on the V2


@pjandb memory key wireless dongle for mouse/ external keyboard, webcam.

When in home/office a dock will help and thus only usb-c needed. Out and about - esp for keys then usb-a good

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To me, uniform bezels are much more important to the design of the device than thin bezels. In other words, better thicker uniform bezels than narrow bezels only on the sides.

Also, the radius of the corners of the device should be equal or smaller than the size of the bezel. A bigger radius like this looks forced, like if a too big screen was made to fit on a too small device.

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About thickness vs bezels…

  • Having a thin device can come in handy when transporting it along with other stuff. Having a slightly smaller one won’t probably make a difference in any bag or hand. Or in almost any use case I can think of. So thin device > slim bezels.
  • On the other, I’d rather have a thicker device with better specs and features than a thinner one with less ports and features. So featured device > thin device. Especially if the added thickness can improve cooling, battery life, sturdiness or other features.

So features > thin device > slim bezels.

So if we would be losing functionality just for shaving off some millimeters from the sides of the device, then it’s a nope for me.

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Can’t emphasise this enough. I think that Fn + Up/Down/Left/Right for Page Up/Page Down/Home/End is a good compromise on the off-the-shelf design, if possible?


I don’t want to speak for anyone here, but I believe that Apple killing it with their screens is more down to the control they have over their operating systems. IIRC, Windows’ colour management is absolutely abysmal, and relies on each application managing its own colours, meaning the same colour can be displayed differently across different Windows.

IMO, a nice thing for a hardware manufacturer to do would be to actually hardware calibrate their display with a white point as close as possible to 6500K, and keep ΔE values for sRGB as low as possible. Over time, the display will change a bit, but anyone who really needs colour to be spot on will be aware of that, and probably won’t be doing any super critical work on a laptop.

Saying that, I’m not familiar with how display manufacturers/distributors operate with system builders, so don’t know whether that’s possible, practically or economically(?).

Oh, and no automatic brightness features (cough Dell cough)!

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I know I am late to this conversation, but to me, USB A is just dead. For the few accessories that I cannot buy with USB C I am happy to use a dongle. I think by keeping the USB A you are giving the impression of an outdated device. This is true as well for the bezels. It does not really matter if large bezels are better and more useful. The reviews who will be driving sales will look at it and say this device is not worth buying because it looks outdated.

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I agree with those suggesting to just make the whole thing thicker so that you could have the display on top of the ports and go even closer to the edges for the smallest possible bezels? I wouldn’t mind a slightly thicker device if it meant we could have almost no bezels around the screen. How thick would it need to be to let a USB-C port site underneath the display that goes to the edge? Plus if it’s thicker it just gives the whole thing more space for battery and/or cooling.

So interesting our these subtle changes make the bezels look very different.

Great idea. Incorporate a hub into the charger!

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@Lore_Wonder thanks for the info. Now as far as I can measure, they are 15mm.
I am ok with 10mm, 13… would maybe not be incentive to get a new V. Don’t need USB A … have enough adapters…


I think the display is fixed. So it would mean, smaller bezels => smaller device.
[would be fine for me]

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It indeed is a hard choice, do you want to trust this company and the project with it’s great features or not.

I think small bezels >1cm should be alright, it makes production cheaper and easier if you have some bezel, compared to when you have practically nothing.

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If we have to have USB-A ports, I think putting them in the charger would be a great solution.

Exactly my opinion!

Features include USB-A ports for me, as I’m still using them quite frequently. Trying to replace this with USB-C options as often as I can, but a complete replacement will take quite some time. For me having those ports is much more versatile, being in different places and plugging in different periphery (other people’s on a regular basis).
If there was a bigger screen I might be convinced for smaller bezels, but as there is not I’d much prefer to use the gained space for more/improved internals as well as a decently sized keyboard.

I’ve heard that before, but might have missed if there was a poll about it. How many people feel that way? I for instance rarely hold my device in one hand for a long time and therefore don’t mind the weight (especially because the main trade-off was battery life). And that does not mean that I’m not using my V in tablet mode, but normally either having it on my lap or on some table in front of me and use the kickstand.

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Would it be possible to include USB Type A Ports in the Keyboard Section?

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Including USB Type-A ports (or other USB ports) in the V keyboard is unlikely due to the added cost, thickness, and increased manufacturing risk. As you can see in this topic, with barely a keyboard layout customization, the device price can be expanded up to $40; the addition of ports and probably a more advanced connector (possibly the connector on the new V needs to be modified as well) will most likely have an even more significant impact on the pricing. Moreover, the V is a portable device; the added port component and probable daughterboard to route the connection increase keyboard thickness, adding to the total device thickness. The 1st-Gen V’s thickness is 9mm, and the original V keyboard was relatively thick (with a battery inside). We do not prefer the new V and its keyboard exceeds the width of mainstream portable laptops.

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Would it be possible to keep just the pgup/pgdn buttons from the alternative keyboard layout and make their function-operations be home/end? I don’t want all those other buttons, but dedicated pgup/pgdn buttons would be hugely useful.

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PgUp/PgDn/Home/End were function-operations of the cursor keys on the 1st-Gen V. As the new V will have an extra column of keys on the right-hand side, we will probably be able to configure some dedicated keys there.

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Understood, but do we really need an extra column at the top? We need all of the shift/ctrl/alt keys to work like they are supposed to. However, dedicated pgup/pgdn keys on either side of the up arrow would help improve ergonomics and overall functionality if the keyboard suffers from similar design issues.

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Similar to you that I also prefer to have dedicated PgUp/PgDn keys on top of the left and right arrow, same as ThinkPad keyboards. It was featured in our community concept for the new V keyboard up to this version, and then got replaced by the more intuitive 7th row, and ultimately a dedicated extra column on the right-hand side. I would say keyboard can get too subjective regarding key usage; PgUp, PgDn, Home, End, Insert, Menu all have their unique use case, except the outdated ones like Pause/Break almost nobody is using. Inverted ‘T’ layout won the official survey, and it will serve as a reference for the new V’s keyboard layout. The primary concern about squeezing six keys around the little area is that it is difficult for touch-typing.

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New V design has been revealed! :smiley: