Muse: Flow II review contest - our starting point

I’ve never tried a pair of headphones that didn’t bother me at least once in a while. Still, given how our heads and ears and everything come in different shape and sizes, it’s great that so many headphones are available and that some can work for so many people.

Funny that headphones don’t have sizing (as far as I’m aware) like glasses or hats though.

They do, in the form of adjustable head bands and such. My VOIDs can increase the headband size in either or both directions, and each earcup can rotate and tilt individually. Those are all features intended to make it fit comfortably on heads of varying sizes and shapes…

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I think he means standardized sizing, like shoe sizes, clothing sizing etc. But even with that not every brand handles the sizing the same way.

Exactly, and that’s certainly true. Even if it exists it can’t necessarily tell you whether the fit is right or they’re true to size. Form what I’ve seen glasses seem to be about the only thing that really gets close to being consistent there.

Some of the most comfortable headphones I’ve owned just had a padded metal strip in the top band, allowing you to really bend and adjust them to fit just how you want. So many bluetooth headbands have these plastic shells that I’m afraid to bend and shape.

That’s a good point. I just fixated on your comment because my go-to headphones are 558’s. Guess I’ve forgotten what headphones with stronger clamping force can feel like.

That’s very good news! :slight_smile:

let me suggest to send a survey to all reviewers to cut the information down to a measureable number and have a real summary of the reviews… Maybe one of the reviewers can give his checklist for the survey…
All in all I’m really impressed of the work the reviewers put into this!


This would be a very good idea to organize all the information, and easily see what needs to be improved.

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Agreed - it will have value but I feel the team will have to read each review to gather the feedback that a quantitative survey won’t reflect.

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In my review of the Cleer Flow II headphones I suggested that the designers of the Muse might consider using the USB C charging cable for both power and audio, thus reducing the number of leads:

" Mad thought: Cleer boasts that users wanting to enjoy the highest frequency response or make use of a better DAC can do so via a cable connection. Both of these functions could in theory be served simultaneously via the USB C connector, in which case the headphones would also be able to keep themselves fully charged. Why would anyone want to run two cables to the headphones to use them, or feel obliged to charge them when not using them, if all the tasks could be achieved simultaneously via one cable? I’m not sure of the electrical/ engineering requirements but this may be worth considering as USB C outputs become more common."
(Muse: Flow II review contest - our starting point)

I’ve just had an email through from Centrance, makers of the excellent Dacport DACs, saying that their next product (the Hifi M8 V2 Dac/Amp) will have this facility:
“Looking at the back panel, the left hand side USB C jack can be used to both charge the battery and play USB audio.”

I really do think this is worth thinking about from the point of view of how things will be in the future as opposed to how things have been done so far.


Just an opposing view. I don’t want to have to use my phone as a battery bank for the headphones. As a power user I already struggle to get my phone to the end of the day without headphones sucking away at the battery. I’m also a diehard headphone jack fan. If people want to use the heaphones wired with a PC, you need to use a 3.5mm port (for most devices at least).

This seems like it would overcomplicate things rather than make them simpler.

Just my two cents.

When connecting your headphones to anything via any cable, the headphones will use power of the device. Traditional headphones will actually be entirely powered by the headphone jack since they have no internal way of holding power.
PC’s have USB ports, either USB-C or USB-A, so Muse will be compatible with the PC’s and the like.
Exception to that:

  • Consoles, depending on what the new xbox and ps5 will do
  • Apple ecosystem, they don’t seem to know if headphone jack is better then lightning either (since macbooks still have headphone jacks and no lightning)
  • Professional audio gear only have analog outputs (with the exception of an USB connection to a single device which is used to drive the thing).

I’m not sure what the technique is for using an USB-C connection with an external DAC. Not sure if that’s even possible, so that might be pro headphone jack.


There are many Lightning/USB C to jack reductions, even with high end DAC’s Which are used on 1000$ Headsets.

Essentially you convert it a bit to much.

Computer -> Digital signal -> DAC
DAC -> Analog signal -> dongle
Dongle -> Digital signal -> Headphones
Headphones -> Analog signal -> Drivers/speakers

I don’t think it’ll improve the quality


You are saying that muse II will not have analog connection? That it will be normal -
PC - DAC - Headset,
Only difference that DAC will be outside. I have seen really good 45$ USB c DAC.

I’m saying if headphones don’t have an analog connection, an external DAC might nog be worth it since it’s better to keep the digital signal digital in almost all cases.
So if there is no headphone jack, an external DAC would not matter much and only muddy the signal.

I’m writing my comments as a community member, not as staff. I generally don’t have more information then you guys have. Especially on product decisions


Sure, I get that point. There seem to be four options: (1) USB C on its own, for power and audio (2) USB C on its own, Bluetooth the audio, (3) USB C for power plus headphone jack for audio, (4) headphone jack on its own, headphone battery for power. That can be dealt with using logic gates: if a USB C cable is plugged in and the headphones are not paired with anything, use the cable for both. If both cables are plugged in, use the audio cable for audio. If only the audio cable is plugged in, use it.

Yes, i am only saying that if there is jack (which should be there)

If there was an option to disable charging from the USB C connection then I’d be fine with only having the usb C. However I have an amp/DAC that I use with my PC and I don’t want to have to get a USB to 3.5mm adaptor just to use my headphones with my amp.

All of this seems overly complicated when the headphone jack is already part of the design. I’m unsure whether or not it would be possible to have the audio work with both the 3.5mm and usb C ports, so we could get the best of both worlds.

Personally I’d refuse to buy Bluetooth headphones that don’t have a jack, because if the headphones run out of charge they become useless until charged again (provided you can’t get audio through the usb C port).

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My headsets have 3.5mm jack, Bluetooth and Xbox Wireless, with ability to use all at once, and mUSB B, for charging and software updates

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