[merged discussion topic] eGPUs and how awesome they are


#21

Yeah, obviousely you would either need to modify the Keyboard connector port which (in this state of development) most probable is not possible anymore for our current eve branch.

But still with a cable it would be better than having an external case…
Or maybe you could attach it to the side via magnet…


#22

Modifying the kb connector is now impossible. That I know.

But there are two main voices about the eGPU as far as I’ve seen. Those that wan’t mobility, and those that wan’t to be able to switch out components.
I think Eve will have to have a vote on which one they should go after, before anything else, to make sure everyone is on the same page. As it stands now, there has been plenty discussions for and against both sides, so granted people bother to read, there should be plenty to draw a personal conclusion from.


#23

The title sounds like you want to gift a Razer Core to Eve. You should really correct it :slight_smile: The tablet is called:

EVE V


#24

I changed the title accordingly. Thank you for pointing it out. I knew there was something off about the title, but couldn’t put my finger on it.


#25

Don’t worry about this if you want to have mobile GPUs. My sources are telling me there are many mobile size (designed to be carried around) GPU enclosures coming to market not so long from now!


#27

That’s fantastic news @Mike.
If we decide to make a graphics dock, it should beat the competition in features and price, else there’s no point in creating one.
Look at the Eve V, tech giants are learning from us. :slight_smile:


#28

So you are basically saying have an eGPU attached to the a keyboard? It will still need an external power source, cooling, etc. The size and form factor will still be similar to those on the market, since full size cards are typically large and way too bulky.

The Surface Book has a dGPU, not an eGPU.

A dGPU is practical, based on portability. An external power brick, and a dGPU attached to a keyboard is a great idea. Leads to a much smaller form factor, and allows transportation to be less of a pain. Unfortunately room to upgrade or swap cards out would not be possible; Most eGPUs use desktop cards and can be easily replaced/upgraded, a primary reason why many buy those instead. Cooling is very limited on dGPUs, so top of the line chips will probably not used.

Maybe MXM modules could work to expand on the upgradability, but you will need to modify the heatsink/cooling depending on each chip, as well as the power delivery. However I am not sure MXM is being supported anymore. Seems like too much work to develop & design with alot of variability.

If you are going the dGPU route, the card/chip will need acceptable widely by the community. (Ideally top of the line; so you can milk the chip as long as you can before needing to upgrade/replace later down the road~ 2-3 years). A 1070, perhaps?


#29

(Personal opinion)

Well, I personally however think that the Surface Book is using some kind adaption of the eGPU procedure to allow attachment/deattachment of the Base (also the reason why we have a dedicated button - because the switching from deGPU (dGPU/eGPU) wasn’t working flawlessly at the time when you just removed it :wink:

Also I hope that a “mobile” eGPU would just basically be powered via a USB PD (so you can have 1 charger for the V and the eGPU (albeit a bit bulkier) and then you’ve got the eGPU in the middle and that’s connected to the V. :slight_smile:


#30

MXM is still supported but boy it is really expensive. For example the GTX 1070 MXM version is almost 1k USD. The very ideal way to solve this problem would be to have the smallest dock possible capable of fitting graphics card of this size.

In short a dock that looks like the akitio thunder but with enough space for a power supply.


#31

@iKirin Ah I see. An iteration of both.

@Xify Smaller Form Factors would be ideal. Those cards used in HTPCs and such. Akitio Thunder would be an ideal model. Very Barebones would be a V8.0 EXP GDC. Just add an enclosure, power brick, and change the MiniPCIE to thunderbolt, then you have a winner.

Getting ahead would be a barebones card (such as those seen on water-cooled models), with an adaptable yet thin profile solution of cooling (water cooling or thin profile coolers). Maybe a barebones reference card with a designated/universal layout and a thin profile cooler that works to cool every component of the card as needed; which will cover the chip/GPU, memory, VRM, and anything else that needs to be cooled.

There are three means of cooling for a desktop GPU

  1. Air (Heatsink & Fan)
  2. Liquid Cooling (WaterBlock + tube on GPU. Tubes will connect externally to a radiator+Fans, and a water pump)
  3. Hybrid (Essentially the same as liquid, in an already tested closed system; no need for maintenance)

I haven’t seen many thin-profile heatsinks + high pressure fans (Air method) on higher end GPUs. Maybe they just don’t provide adequate of efficient cooling as their two slot counterparts?

Then there is liquid cooling, which is slightly smaller in width but ends up taking up 2 slots anyways. Going liquid offers the best cooling, but it comes with a price of the pump, solution, radiator, heatsink (none of which is cheap) and would require maintenance.

Most hybrid solutions are just as bulky/same size as the normal fan+heatsink options. Hybrids don’t require maintenance, so there just needs to be an area to mount the radiator. More cost-effective and less work than traditional liquid cooling.

I think no matter what if you are going the high end desktop eGPU route you will need at least two slots of space. So it will be a slightly less long, bulky box, haha? :smile:

If those with an Eve V just want to game periodically, GeForce announced their NOW program at CES 2017, allowing you to stream games and gameplay into your less powerful GPU sourced computer and play off-site. However with implementation of data caps (~ United States’ Comcast for example), and the charge of $25USD for 20 hours of gameplay; I am not sure who would go for this. Those who use CUDA or OpenCL for extra processing would be left in the dark.
The Cloud is powerful.


I did some research on the deGPU of the Surface Book. It isn’t very powerful with a TDP of around 33W and estimated performance which is slightly less than a 940m. A desktop 950 GT would require 90W of power (as a low end/budget friendly desktop graphics card). A 980m GTX would have a TDP of around 122W. The Mobile/desktop 1080 GTX would need 180W. If you would go for the higher end models, a bulky enclosure would definitely help in cooling, and additional power will definitely be needed.

All this will lead to big & bulky. :disappointed: Only way to keep things cool and to avoid sucking out all the power from the EVE V.

Less bulky will definitely mean sacrificing performance, and going down to perhaps a 1050 Ti which has a 75w TDP.

MSI has created a low-profile adaption of 1050 Ti, see below.


#32

I would also go with an eGPU enclousure so that we are able to install and upgrade the GPU instead of having one a dGPU. Better future proofing and performance.


#33

I guess we’re imagining something like the Surface Book’s “Performance Base” which is essentially a keyboard with a dGPU?

Except that for something like that to work with the V, it would still require a TB3 connection unlike the Surface Book which was designed for that purpose and has proprietary connection interface (if I remember correctly).

The weakness of such portable eGPU solutions is essentially the same as all portable computing devices, i.e. limited ability to be upgraded (if upgrade-able at all). Also a compact form factor would also imply tighter TDP headroom, so the power of the GPU inside that portable-eGPU would be limited (e.g. Surface Book w/Perfomance uses the 965M, quite fast for a mobile GPU but nowhere close to desktop grade GPUs)

This is a bit alleviated by recent advancements of mobile GPUs (thanks to nvidia), we actually start to get desktop-grade performance mobile GPUs. The notebook versions of the high-end GTX 1080 and mid-range GTX 1060 are just lower-clocked versions of their desktop counterparts (notebook version of GTX 1070 is actually closer to a slow GTX 1080 rather than a 1070.)

This may still be far from desktop eGPU solutions, where you can swap the graphics card freely. It is also likely to be waaaaaaaay more expensive - mobile stuff are always more expensive.


#34

This might be an interesting read for you
the new dell 2-1


#35

Hello community, :grinning:
I’m new here. And I am no expert in this area! :joy:

I know that Eve’s Team is super busy. But I just had an idea that might complement the Eve V in the future, which is the creation of “External Graphics Processing Unit (eGPU)”, but a bit different from the ones that already exist …
As you may know, Nvidia has created a technology that it calls “Max-Q” and uses GeForce GTX 1080.
Correction: I did not know and was told [by: @Jason_Yang] that the GeForce GTX 1060 also has the Max-Q technology, so I prefer to use 1060 instead of 1080, because 1060 is more than enough.

  • So why not create an eGPU with this technology?

    Thus, we created for the first time eGPU super thin and portable and with the best / one of the best graphics cards in the market.

    And if it were possible, you could also add with the “eGPU” a battery so not to drain the life of Eve’s battery.

    With the creation of this eGPU we were able to get better graphics of the Eve V and we would still have super portable equipment [And if possible with a “better” or same battery life.]

This is just an idea, so this may not be possible. But if the community likes it, it may be that the @Team will consider it in the future.

Poll:

  • I like it.
  • I dont like it.
  • I like it but it’s not possible.

0 voters

Best regards,

@Hello_EVE


#36

Welcome to the community, @Hello_EVE.
I have a question: In what ways does your idea here differ from the other threads about an eGPU?
The only ‘new’ thing I see here is including a battery, which I think is not that great, because the eGPU will be connected to power supply anyways, so why not simply make it pass through?


#37

Hi

I like this idea tough 1080 is a bit overpowered for a egpu setup on my opinion.
Also I wouldn’t carry this with me so it would be home at my desk connected to my screen and other devices.
So battery wouldn’t be so important to me

But I agree that integrated egpu is the way to go.
And if the price is a 299 i would take it over a Console
With 1060 or equal


#38

Agreed, IF Eve were to even consider doing this, I think its important to know that they are a small team and probably won’t be able to make different variations of this. Would be easiest to make just one variation that can satisfy as many people as possible. The 1060 is probably that middle area in terms of performance and price.

But one thing i am concerned with regarding this community’s forum is that a lot of people seem to be geared towards gaming. Though I’m not entirely sure myself, won’t the V bottleneck any gpu significantly? I’m aware a lot of games can run on a dual core CPU, but the fact that the base clock speed is so low probably hinders it (I know of the boost, but doubt it can consistently keep up that boost over a long period of time). Unless I’m completely wrong and the Y processors are capable of gaming over long periods of time, then bring on the eGPU’s!


#39

You would run into more thermal throttling of the CPU more then anything the GPU aslong as it’s cooled right should be fine. The CPU can handle quite a bit if it stays cooled.


#40

Hello @Tirigon, @V1bez, @Xaponz and @Chiesel
First of all, I hope everything is alright with you. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I simply created this article without thinking if there were other articles talking about it.
As I said and without using this argument to defend myself " I’m new here. And I am in the expert in this area! ", so I have not yet had time to see all the articles that have been created.

Answer to other questions:

I know 1080 is too powerful, but it’s the only one that Nvidia has implemented its new “Max-Q” technology. And my idea was to create a portable eGPU to match the portability that Eve V offers.

  • I think in this part I did not explain myself well:

    I think it is important to add a battery, since it is a portable eGPU, in other words, that accompanies the user everywhere… Not all places have a source of energy nearby. So if there was a battery that lasted about 3 hours it was good. But of course the option to use only the power source will always exist.

But I repeat: "This is just an idea, so this may not be possible. And I am no expert in this area!"
By the way, I have no idea if this would be too expensive.

Regards :smiley:


#41

Max Q is on 1060, 1070 and 1080.