Long awaited Muse update!

Hello Eve Family!

It’s been a while since the last update on our headphone project. Even though there has been a lot of public focus on Spectrum, there have been a lot of developments behind the scenes for Muse. In fact, we have come upon a whole new approach to this project, and in this topic I want to share it with you and hear your thoughts on it.

Before we dive in

When we last saw our headphone project, we had just locked down what specs people want, and listed them in this topic. Then we answered some popular questions in a Q&A session.

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So what’s going on?

As you can see from the previous posts, we’re already clear on what the crowd wants. With the specs and goals locked down we started discussing the scope of the project with our design partner Propeller, and were trying to decide when best to kick off the industrial design phase. But after seeing the discussions here in our community, our manufacturing partner GrandSun got really excited about the project and has suggested an alternative approach to developing Muse.

Grandsun has suggested that we use their own successful headphones, the Cleer Flow II, as a skeleton on which to build Muse. Cleer Flow II was the product that drew our attention to GrandSun in the first place; I and other members of the team have been using these headphones since April and are very impressed by its build quality and noise canceling performance. Other features like the microphone quality, sound, other features aren’t where we want them yet. But we can Use Cleer Flow II as a starting point and build up from there, replacing the things that don’t match your requirements.

GrandSun’s Cleer Flow II

What does that mean for Project: Muse?

Normally, designing a product such as this from start to finish (like we are doing with Spectrum, our monitor project) takes roughly nine months. Most of that time isn’t spent trying to achieve pristine audio quality, perfect noise-canceling or crystal clear voice calls, but rather to develop the actual tooling and mechanical design for such a durable product. If we use the Flow II as a starting point, we could save a lot of time and avoid unnecessary risk when it comes to production. Also, if we can save on development cost, we can pass those savings on to you.

Here’s how it would work:

  • We would use some of GrandSun’s existing tooling for internal structures like hinges and the folding mechanisms.
  • We would still fully remake remake the internal electronics – processor, amp, mics, DSP, etc. We make sure that the specs and features we decided with you get implemented.
  • We would keep some of the design elements of the headphone while redesigning the parts that the community feels need improvement.

The next steps would be:

  • We will send out a number of Cleer Flow II’s to community members for initial testing and review, giving us feedback on what you guys think is good about it and what needs work.
  • Based on your feedback, we decide what changes need to be made to achieve a level of design and comfort we’re happy with.
  • Propeller will start work on the redesign project.

What are the pros and cons of this new approach?

:+1: We think it might be a great idea because:

  • We will be able to deliver product to market much faster and still offer all the specs people want!
  • We don’t fix if it ain’t broken and don’t reinvent the wheel. There are things that work really well in Flow 2, such as the stellar noise canceling performance, great feel of the buttons and a very good overall build quality. We can reuse these strengths as a starting point.
  • There is already a mature supply chain in place that would make after sales support much easier, and using tried and tested components we would see fewer defects from day one.
  • We can use the existing product to send out units for an early round of community testing, making changes based on your feedback!

:-1: We think it might not be a good idea because:

  • We will not have as much flexibility in the design as with a project where we build completely from scratch.

So is a fully custom project out of question?

No, its not. The reason we wrote this post is to share this opportunity we were presented with. We are excited about trying different approaches to crowd-development, but at the same time we want to make sure you guys are on board if we are to explore new paths! I am very excited personally, and think it makes a lot of sense. We will finally be able to offer more products developed with eve.community, faster and with less chance of hiccups.

So what to you think, folks? Should we give this idea a try?

  • :+1: I think this new approach is a good idea
  • :-1: I don’t think this new approach is a good idea
    (please comment below why!)

0 voters


So hype :drooling_face:

Sounds like a great idea to me. Especially if that rim on the Cleer Flow II is a dial to control volume and noise cancelling, since that seems to be the most intuitive control I have seen. Plus time and cost drop is always appreciated.


Great idea. Do it! The Cleer Flow II looks really good visually.

1 Like

@Konstantinos a great idea, design is good, for picking up, if more color finishes, USB C and new chipset can be achieved on this then great, if rings in design can be used as dials like on Surface Headphones it will be good . One more thing in the update emails just sent, the link to muse post is taking to spectrum post.


Will it also be possible to change the charging port? …from micro-USB to USB type C?
And generally speaking… I think it would be awesome if we could choose between different colours (I’m guessing manufacturing wouldn’t change drastically…


@Raffael_Welter yes of course! We will change them up a lot! And we will get all the specs people want! You can see the spec list we have so far requested by the crowd here:

We will have 4 calling mics though :)))

@ANIRUDDHA_AGARWAL thanks for spotting!!!


This seems like a great idea! Can’t wait for Muse!!

There are several reviews on those headphones, you can look at those and see what you can improve.

Here is an example


@Konstantinos :sweat_smile: one more thing in specs sheet in smart assistant part it is also listed incorrectly it says Alexa or Amazon, it should be Alexa or Google Assistant though I am in favor of Alexa.:blush:


Nice idea! Just curious, from your experience using them so far, are they as good as sony or bose comfort-wise?


They definitely on par in terms of sound and noise canceling but I think comfort will need improvement as after few hours of use they do get uncomfortable.


Really like the features that allows you to hear what’s going on around you, when you cover one ear piece, and also the auto pausing of playback, when you take the cans off your head. Have either of these features been discussed for Muse (I don’t recall)?.


I don’t think they have been discussed for muse but they seem great, it would be good if they could add them to Muse


I don’t mind the idea as a whole, but I’m not too pleased with the visual appearance of the Cleer Flow Headphones.

This is obviously only my opinion, but for me I’d like to see some bigger design changes if you decide to work on the foundation that’s already there!

And overall I enjoy the idea of creating a new product from scratch more than trying to improve a product that already exists. On the other hand I’m all for it, since it’s probably way more doable and realistic. (I’m quite torn as you can see ^^)


Yeah, auto pause is a feature that helps a lot in daily usage.



how is noice cancellation in this compared to sony 1000mx3



We will be sending prototypes to you folks to test soon:) But yes, In my opinion it’s the same level.


cool thanks can’t wait

I find it very hard to give an answer to the poll. I have no clue what we’ll be giving up by doing this. What are the limitations? Are there any of the community specs that we won’t be able to incorporate?


Overall I think this is a great thing to consider. I’m scared of unforseen challenges of fitting the community’s specs in an existing design, but I’m sure everything will work in the end. I’m especially supportive of this reason to go with the Flow II base:

There is already a mature supply chain in place that would make after sales support much easier, and using tried and tested components we would see fewer defects from day one.

After the issues that were had with the Eve V, a mature supply chain is very welcome.


Sounds great, take a great template and improve from then on. Keep going.