Initial design directions for our new 2-in-1

Unfortunately, an OLED screen is likely out of the question. OLED is a) too expensive and b) too prone to burn in for it to be a practical solution. We can dream though. Or wish for microLED instead (even more expensive but no burn in)

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To be honest, I’m hoping for something that breaks away from the intel realm if AMD can provide an APU that can fit this space. AMD’s 7nm tech and upcoming 7nm+ should be able to provide an APU that is in 15w and offers at least 8c/16t at the high end. Especially with RDNA2.0 and next gen navi in the Zen3 APUs that might be a good fit for this design.

While I’m hopeful Intel’s Xe will prove to be a challenger to Nvidia and AMD both, Intel’s IGPs are a real weakness for some applications, and Xe tiles may not help if their efficiency isn’t high enough. More importantly, Intel has had problems proving they can use their new processes to create truly competitive products over the last few years. There is no question that Intel was king for a very long time, but AMD’s innovation in chiplet design and the zen architecture does provide a significant challenge to even intel’s latest architecture and design philosophies. A challenge they have not yet met and may not need to if they focus on their datacenter products. And AMD has clearly proven they’re going to continue their pace with Zen. Given Intel’s security vulnerabilities as well… from an IT perspective I cannot condone using their products in a work environment where sensitive information may be handled or to anyone who values their ability to keep data private on their systems. I’d be very happy to be proven wrong by intel in the coming year or so, but I think it will take them another 3 years together to actually get back into the game as a serious competitor. They are still releasing 14nm parts this year. And that’s depressing.

I like the design of the Surface Book 2, and would not mind if there was a keyboard with extra battery and GPU power while having a decent APU in the laptop. That said, I think there should be as many USB type C/thunderbolt ports on the tablet portion as possible. 4 would be good. This is the new standard therefore we should adopt to this even though it means dongles on the tablet portion. However, if we can get some USB type A ports on a detachable keyboard that would work for me.

I prefer metal construction overall - simply because I’ve had too many cases where plastic parts have become brittle after heavy use and the thermal loads of the devices. I know that this might be less of a problem in a 2-in-1 with a completely detachable keyboard, but its still a frustrating event when a part of your system fails because the structure failed and your PCB was damaged as a result.

I do wish that there was a better solution for the pen than the nTrig technology microsoft uses. It still has problems with straight lines and smooth drawing. I use a wacom cintiq pro display so I’m very biased and freely admit it. I also realize that a lot of more casual artists don’t mind or even see these issues and that for business use the nTrig tech is perfectly fine. But EMR is better than nTrig and EMR+ is vastly superior. However I do know that Wacom does not license their professional artist tech to 3rd party tablets or laptops so I guess we’re stuck with what we got.

Just a few thoughts on the potentials.

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For me the surface book like system would be the best setup I can use. But the one thing that I would demand is that the GPU stays in the tablet part. The keyboard can be used as a docking station and extra battery and such, but adding a dGPU in it would require a high bandwidth connection between the tablet and keyboard. That is probably not really worth it if you see what the AMD apu’s are doing now. And by the time this new Eve device would be out, it could very well be with the 5th generation of AMD apu’s so it could probably handle decent gaming without a dGPU.

I kind of like the one + one in a way. It compares to how I use my iPad now, it allows for a very smooth and easy switch between tablet only and using the keyboard. I like it more than having a kickstand. But it can’t compete with the surface book like setup to me.

The digitizer must be made by Wacom.
Both MPP and AES have severe jitter and are difficult to use.
Currently, there are very few tablets that can be used for graphics.
It is worth buying just using Wacom for digitizer.
EVE V digitizers also have a poor position system, making it difficult to write fine kanji.
and AAAA batteries are not sold much, so Vpen is hard to use.
The battery ran out during a business trip and I could not take notes.
image image

So I use GalaxyBook12 most of the time.

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I hate OLED because it burn in, and it is weak against high temperature and humidity.
IGZO is just right from the price and performance.
I was discolored if I was using the GalaxyBook in a hot and humid environment.

But if a Wacom digitizer is attached, I will allow it.

Shouldn’t the gruves for the heatsink be vertical to utilize the ambient airflow of the heated air? (Hot air rises)

EMR is no problem: my old Thinkpad Helix had it (but then the digitizer stopped working, twice), and the Acer Switch 7 Black Edition has it. The Samsung S-Pen is just Wacom EMR technology (the S-Pen stylus can even interoperate with some Wacom tablets, I forgot which ones). E-ink reader tablets like the Remarkable are using it, too.

How is EMR+ different, technically? Is that the one you say they won’t license? But I think they own nTrig now too, don’t they? I haven’t tried nTrig yet (but I will when I get my V!) but since everyone says it sucks, I also hope they won’t use that again.

And then there’s AES, the most common tech for combo touchscreen/stylus systems now. I suspect that’s the most practical choice for Eve, because AFAIK it somehow uses the same ITO traces on the glass both for capacitive touch and for the digitizer, which simplifies the design; whereas I suppose (but I’m not sure) EMR requires a separate layer of some sort, right? The downside of AES is that the stylus cannot be passive: it needs to be powered. So most first-gen styli have batteries (AAAA for example, which is hard to find in stores, and I feel bad using disposable batteries in anything… it’s just wrong). IMO the right way to deal with that issue is to use a supercapacitor in the stylus, and provide charging contacts (or inductive charging maybe) in the storage slot, so that it’s always ready to work for at least a couple of hours when you take it out. Some Yoga models from a few years ago were doing that. I don’t know why they stopped, except probably just because they made the recent models too thin so there wasn’t space for it anymore.

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Can we get a USB-C on both sides of the new 2-in-1, to make charging more convenient? Also, if you decide to go with the same form factor, can you at least make both USB-C sections square so my plugs stop falling out? Oh, and fix the left-shift thing, it’s been super annoying.

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Wacom was stealing data about oppened apps

Sure, wacom was stupid.
However, Wacom is the only one so far.
Wacom’s new feel it tech. Has a little jitter, but it is smaller than AES and MPP.
I don’t know MPP2.0 and USI.

EVE V’s pen input may be usable in English countries, but for those of us who use kanji, we feel lacking.
The weak point of PC using EMR is that the bezel becomes large, …

※The distortion in this line is due to a mistake in the design of the cube.
The distortion does not occur in Thinkpad X201tablet of the old feel it tech.

Check kanji and lines.
The line was drawn very slowly.

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I own a 15in hp envy with Ryzen 5 CPU great computer after I upgraded it but battery life is horrible on it the the fan is very quite on it even at max. I picked up a used surface book with the I7 and nvidia GPU it has better battery life when the keyboard is attached. I find myself reaching for the surface book more then the hp envy.

I would I like to see it made from machined aluminum
A 1440p touch screen 13in
Upgradable nvme, & ram
Replaceable batterys
Majority of the ports being on the keyboard portion as I would be holding it mostly as a tablet
If possible a pen that uses AAA batterys
Gorilla glass for the screen

I like that idea. And you could easily boost cooling performance for demanding workloads with a dock that has an integrated fan (or more than one) that blows air through the metal cells.

In general, i am all for a mix of “Boosted Keyboard” and “Better up”. “Better up” with great heat dissipation and as such hopefully a powerful CPU would be great for programming workloads on the go Its idea of modularity would, i think, also be greatly appreciated by companies. That combined with the “promise” of “Boosted Keyboard” and as such increased battery runtime (i am assuming that an extra battery is in the keyboard) and increase in creative and machine learning performance with a dedicated GPU, like the Surface Book, would be a killer device.

But…you should really think hard about the kind of connection you want to use between tablet and keyboard, because it needs to be future proof, so that you can use accessories between different generations of the tablet and so that there is enough bandwidth left for future upgraded revisions of the GPU in the keyboard.

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I believe that the form factor is the most important consideration. It seems that MSF is moving Windows (10X) into the multiple screen, folding format. Both the Duo and Neo look to be interesting. The Neo could be my next laptop/desktop equivalant. A 2in1 where the replacement of the keyboard at a future day with another screen might be a way to go. Screen size with portability and battery power can become more flexible as new tech comes on line. We shouldn’t have to replace an entire unit every year but just replace or add.

An HDMI in port would also be helpful in making the device last longer then its parts… I would like HDMI in

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why not bring some mularity in the new Eve V?

live a cangeable camera-module (Samsung 108 MegaPixel-Sensor?) or changeable Processor?

perhaps it is placed on a special card (new Eve ChangeCards) that can be easily switched by anyone.

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NO Buttons! Buttons BAD! Raaawwrr! :face_with_symbols_over_mouth:

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A few days ago, saw an advertisement of the “Fairphone”.

I like the idea of modules. So why not maybe implement something like that in the new V.
It could make the V more future proof and could make it more cost effective to upgrade it…

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Fairphone is among a lot of other projects which tried modularity and failed. Others include: Motorola Moto Mods, Essential Phone PH-1, LG G5, and the famous Project Ara.

It does pop-up all the time, so there is some allure to it. The problem with modularity is:

  • inherently bulkier then included. Even technically, just look at dimm slots for ram vs soldered ram.
  • modularity is only as good as the availability of the parts. That’s one of the main reasons the previous projects failed.
    Check https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcQxdjHlKO4 for more info about it.

to summarize: Nice idea, execution is hard.

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Don’t get me wrong…
I didn’t want to have the whole V modular but maybe it would be an idea for some parts of it… For example the camera…

Cheers

And by the way: had my hands on an Fairphone 3 and it wasn’t that bad. Was okay for the price and really easy to take the Moduls out… liked concept and there are worst products, for more then it… :grin:

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The design concepts have been revealed here!