I learned about it too late :( . anyways some ideas


#1

Hello,

I just learned about this project , and very angry I am too late to contribute … but here are some Questions and ideas that can help in Future Versions.

1- Battery :

Why did you ignore making this Tablet Battery Removable ? This is one major thing missing from the Tablet market. and I dont care about that 1mm more thickness for the cover.

2- Recharging Time :

Is your battery Fast charging? I hope it has any kind of fast charging technology…

3- Upgrading : M2 NVME SSD , Wifi , LTE cards options ,

If you ever made that battery removable with a removable back cover , the M2 NVME SSD can become accessible as well for upgrades , and the Wifi module/LTE module as well … no need to make a separate LTE model , Just upgrade.

4- CPU wasted lanes …

here come the big thing … we all know that intel CPU you are using has 10 of PCIe 3.0 Lanes …

Why not take 8 lanes of them and make a use for them ?

here is the Idea … Just make an x8 PCIE external port … as simple as that …

and then make a Box with a x8 PCIe 3.0 slot that can be used for Graphic Cards , with lets say 250 watts power …

and the cable ? a simple pin to pin PCIe 3.0 x8 cable … you design it yourself to avoid buying Expensive patented PCIe cables…

This will turn this tablet into a powerfull desktop machine and will make use of the wasted lanes in laptops no one is using.

I dont care about expensive Thunderbolt boxes … first , thunderbolt 3 is only 4 lanes , and the thunderbolt chips and box are crazy expensive …

Make it a cheap pin to pin x8 lanes cable and x8 slot and x8 port … as simple as that and as cheap as that.

and consider it for any notebook you want to make later as well. in notebook? make it x16 external ports for notebooks CPU has more lanes.

Some CPU has x8 mode and some does not , choose the CPU which gives x8 lanes option as minimum.

5- Amoled Notebook display please ? why IGZO ?

Thats all for now.

Thanks.


#2

Everything seems ‘simple and cheap’, until you actually have to do it.

I suggest you take a look at all the issues they’ve been having trying to get the basic package together and you’ll see that things are not simple when it comes to building a project of this size and complexity.


#3

@MiukuMac

I meant to say as cheap as that compared to Thunderbolt 3 … which is very expensive needs 2 chips one in the Tablet and one in the Thunderbolt Box … and has more latency when used with external Thunderbolt 3 GPU Boxes.

Thanks for your reply.


#5

I understand your point but let’s face it, it has been accepted as an “industry standard” and more and more compatible devices are appearing hence having support for it is beneficial for your average user, whether you think it’s a good idea or not.

At some point in the development of a device or software, you have to choose how much time and effort you are going to invest in something that will only be wanted or required by a very small percentage of the user base (let’s face it, people who shout after removable batteries are an insignificant portion of the potential customer base).

There are many issues with removable covers, not least of which is the overall durability of the chassis and less chances of dust entering the system.


#6

Battery accessible; wifi card accessible = great idea !
who cares about an extra mm?


#7

In our case, dust inside the Chassis is no problem, because we do not have fans or grill like passive cooles :wink:
But you are right dust can enter through that “door”, but you also will able to clean the dust out if you can open the device. On the MS Surface it is impossible to get the dust out of the fans without removing the screen.

That is because industry is forcing everyone to buy fixed batteries in their devices. There are litterally no smartphones or tablets with this feature and the people just stick to what they get advertiesed. And I prefer The fastest Smartphone but I would instantly buy one with replacable battery and high grade components.
I think that it would be even easier to build a tablet with a backplate to remove, you could hide the screws behind the kickstand and remove kickstand and then the plate behind the kickstand without sacrifizing the design because of screws. But I have to admit I never designed or built a Tablet myself :wink:

I think that you would be much more limited in building your own pcie cable instead of using thunderbolt. You are very limited with the electrical specs (Thunderbolt is limited to 1m for a reason :wink: and you cannot deny physics) and it would let development costs explode and you have no open Environment anymore where you can choose the graphics Card (and Box) supplier.


#8

Speak for your self, regarding the battery. I don’t have a problem with fix battery’s. You know why? Because I never changed a battery in any of my devices. The only ones I know that ever replaced one had a bitten apple or a very cheap product. With the battery bypass the V has it will not be overload that damages the battery and kills it lifetime. The only cool thing would be the LTE connection.

If you need all this things, I would recommend you a full size laptop. You know why? I tell you about the other threads here:

  • You want a cap to access battery +1-2mm
  • Others wanted a full size SD card reader +2mm

Doing all this you will get a device that weight will be about 1,2 kg without the keyboard. The battery, thickness and material for the body is the reason why it is already heavier than the surface. And there are lot of people who find it already way to heavy. Should we ignore those? No, the V is a compromise between all those things. And let’s face it, a good engineered device will last 2-3 years without the need of replacing any parts. And after that you would be likely to buy a new one.

So far my two cents to be collected by eve :wink:


#9

This isn’t (in the near future) totally missing from the Windows tablet market, but admittedly a very rare feature. Here’s one:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11389/hp-launches-elite-x2-1012-g2-2in1

Cost is the main reason, why the V doesn’t have a user replaceable battery:

  • User replaceable battery needs to have a hard (plastic) shell for safety reasons. The additional cost of a hard shell is very high for a low volume device - the tooling is expensive.
  • To make a service hatch on the V shell would also increase the cost of shell manufacture and assembly. More parts means more cost. The battery replacement could be done by removing the display, but attaching the display mechanically (with screws) again increases the cost.

Of course there is an HP extra added in the price of Elite X2 1012 G2, but when the starting price is $1099 (i3-7100U, 16GB LPDDR3 and 128GB SSD) compared to V’s $799 (m3-7Y30, 8GB LPDDR3 and 128 GB SSD), you can do the math yourself what Elite X2 G2 better serviceability costs.

And I’m pretty sure that the HP price doesn’t include keyboard and pen either.

Please also remember that the volumes for the HP device are in a different league compared to the V, and that brings cost savings per device in itself.


#10

Batteries wear out, that is just their nature with current technology. If you use your Tablet daily, and use it on battery more often, the battery Bypass does not change much:

  • If you use it for short periods on battery: You will do small charges (~10%) to your battery as soon as you plug it in. Thats bad for the battery.
  • If you only use it on battery, and charge it over night you will have no benefit at all from the battery Bypass, since you will have a charging cycle per day.

I would never ever buy Apple products, but I doubt that their batteries (and charging technology) are worse than any others :wink:

Even Microsoft Surface batteries get defective and cost even more and if you could replace it, you would not have to buy a new 1000$+ device, because the remainings of the device you have is not defective at all.

My nexus 6P is about 1 year old and shows clean signs of battery wear out. It only lasts about half as long as when I bought it. And you could change this with a simple battery replacement for about 50$ maximum.

I think having the battery “user” replacable is not necessary at all. But that is just wording, because is it user replacable if you need a screwdriver? Then you could use the Original battery, make two small screws to attach it inside the V and make a metal door behind the kickstand with a warranty warning on it. Apple has done this on their old Mac books too.

P.S.: adding a full sd slot would have been no impact at all to the thickness, since there is enough room in the V, look at the pictures in the dedicated thread for it. If it does not fit behind the kickstand, because of the increased thickness to Micro sd, you would have to make some kind of other flap to Insert it somewhere else. But it would be possible


#11

I have a Sony Z3. Two years old. It was loaded every day over night. The battery is not like on the first day, but I could go easily over the day with it. The battery lost about 7%. If the V has the same life cycle I don’t mind. And no, I don’t change the battery for 50 bucks because of 7% leak.

I don’t think the bypass is useless when you charge it over night. When the battery is full it will protect the battery by not loading it more than it is good for it.


#12

I would not change the battery because of 7% that is clear, but my Nexus 6P for example lost about 40-50% in one year. That is a very serios problem, I would deal with if I could do it easily.
My Moto 360 (I know form factor is very different) lost about 95% in two years (battery was completely dead, after replacement it worked better than on the first day, but due to opening, the case was damaged and did not close properly anymore…)
Also my bosses Surface Pro 2 had a completely defective battery (did not charge anymore and had no Voltage output) after about 2,5 years, I replaced the battery but it was a hard fight against the glue.
Maybe I that were three times some unlucky chosen devices. But having a service flap in bigger devices which have enough room and do not depend on waterproofness would be great.

I do not own a tablet right now which I use every day (only an old Sony VAIO which is built for serviceing), therefore I cannot say anythig about bigger form factors and batteries used there. But batteries sadly just wear out with current technology.


#13

That is pretty much a known fault in the Nexus 6P.


#14

When I bought it nobody knew this. And this could also happen to the V if the battery supplier is only half as “evil” as the screen supplier… :confused:


#15

Okay, to clear things out for the replies so far …

1- The removable battery is not only for replacement . it is for carrying extra battery around and swapping it while the other one is being charged in the charging dock … or for longer use in travel , or what ever.

2- The removable battery should be hot swap replaceable open the cover , swap battery close the cover.

3- The battery cover can be made not only dust proof , can be made also water proof and firmly fixed . dust is not a big deal not even water if you know how to do it right.

4- it will be only 1mm thickness more given the existing thickness of the Tablet cover.

now for the PCIe external port idea

1- This is an almost zero cost addition … just the cost of the external x8 plug nothing more. you can keep The Thunder blot 3 port no big deal adding x8 lanes NATIVE PCIE x8 Slot is not expensive and easy to do … and will open alot of possiblities.

2- This is already a Standard thing . All Desktop PCs have 6 slots already … I am not saying adding non standard item. I am saying put a SLOT in notebook and tablets that is used using an external PCIexpress x8 ot x16 box. Direct , native , and supported already. and cheaper than Thunderbolt. MUCH cheaper. so why waste lanes the CPU already has ? use them it is just an external port.

3-PCIe cables x8 , x16 already exist but are expensive because of patent. making your own simple pin to pin cable is cheaper.

now for the other idea of whole removable back cover over SSD,Wifi , LTE

this part can be made accessible using screws unlike the battery cover … and can be also made anti dust and anti water as well , not expensive and not hard to make… if you know how.

I wish this project was still in progress I would shared my experiences and put some design my self. any ways maybe later in newer versions.

have a nice day for all.


#16

Yes it is; Misfiring in places may short circuit, and smash the entire device!
That’s how it came to me with one phone!

Sorry my English, it’s not my language…


#17

@eepi56

why are you cutting what I said out of context? complete the sentence please. I said it can be made anti Dust and Anti water as well.


#18

To start of, when we, the community, worked on researching and designing the V we did entertain the idea of accessible internals and swappable batteries and the like. We had a LOT of discussions about it in fact, so please use the community search and read through over a year worth of discussions and research!
But in short, there are a lot of reasons such as device rigidity, weight, capacity, internal integrity/safety and battery capacity that dictate why industry has moved to unibody chassis with built in batteries. While you might argue otherwise, the benefits of unibody greatly outweigh the drawbacks for the vast majority of consumers, therefore this is an industry trend that is not going to change any time soon. Just looks at LG G5 phone… that phone had swappable batteries and you could open it up if needed. But it was a total market flop, because no one really cared for that functionality and building that functionality in took a huge toll on the device. I guess this is similar to car industry. We used to have cars and SUVs that were body on frame and easy to fix (according to people of the era) etc. Today we pretty much only have unibody cars and SUVs that are quite complex and would be scary to fix, to those who miss the good old days… But in reality new cars are safer, more fuel efficient and last a lot longer.

This is an interesting suggestion, unfortunately it would not work in a V, nor in any other tablet that is using 7th gen Core i5/i7 Y & U series processors.

i7-7Y75 has 10 total PCIe lanes and be configured to max 4x1 PCI Express Configuration, which is exactly the configuration of TB3


i7-7500U has 12 total PCIe lanes and be configured to max 4x1 PCI Express Configuration, which is exactly the configuration of TB3[quote=“Salem, post:15, topic:7413”]
I wish this project was still in progress I would shared my experiences and put some design my self. any ways maybe later in newer versions.
[/quote]

You do have good ideas and reasoning so we would love to see you to take active participation in the next device that community will work on for a chance to implement your own ideas and desired features :slight_smile:


#19

My wife’a 6P has done the same thing so today she called Google. They will be replacing the phone as we speak. The phone was a year and a half old. We bought it directly from
Google shortly after its release. Don’t know if buying it direct matters but I suggest you call them.


#20

Fear I’m in the same situation here, regarding the time I acknowledged EVE’s existence.

About the battery I’m more concerned about how much does it last during the day. Of course, with certain software modifications, a 48 Wh battery is pretty durable.

Speaking of softwares, dual boot Windows-Android would be nice. It would give more versatility to the device as well as a tecnologicly siperiority to your competitors since not many companies actually do this to their products (altrough in the near future I think many of them will; be in front of the line!!). A fast M.2 small enought to only contain the 2 OSs will certainly be noticeable.

Having a LTE SIM slot would definetly be usefull but I understand, you want to make a convertible laptop, a SIM card is a necessary sacrifice for the price tag you’re aiming at.

The deatatchable bluetooth keyboard is really nice but a more Yoga style would give more options for upgrading the device’s hardware and would make most gamers and high demanding customers happy. Since you already beated Microsoft’s Surface Pro 4 I see no reason why you shouldn’t beat Dell’s XPS 13 as well.

It’s nice to have a magnetic pen to use for writing and drawing but if you do not intent on upgrading the pressure levels you should include a specialized program for precision writing, just to really give the felling of real paper writing. As for the keyboard it’s awesome that it’s bluettoth but that tiny battery doesn’t assure me, especialy with RGB. If only it could charge itself from the PC’s battery when magnetically connected. EVEn more awesome if it could charge your phone like a wireless charging pad and transfer media with NFC (also something that most products don’t have regarding its utility).

Speaking of magnetic connections, the Mac PC’s magnetical charger is pretty pretty. Most users would apreciete that.

I don’t know if you do this already, but a client support site requiering an EVE customer account offering some usefull services like a backup server with a nice amount of GB is a nice feature expecially if you really make my dual boot dream device a reality but can’t stick in a high capacity SSD/HDD in the product in order to keep it low priced.

Thanks for the patience of actually reading all of this.


#21

It would last around 10-12 hours in normal use. One quirk with the new Kaby Lake chip is that its able to decode video very efficiently, I would expect around 15 hours in pure video decoding. But its not a realistic scenario, hence Eve quotes 10-12 hours. Or to put it into perspective, it would last around 60-100% longer than the Surface Pro 4 (1.6x - 2x).

The problem with this is, from the company perspective, you would need to update the Android portion regularly. And since Android isn’t nearly as modular as Windows where 99%, if not 100% of the drivers will work with the new version no problem. Not updating the Android is something that isn’t very nice to the customer, especially the ones who bought, and spent the money, to use the Android part.

In addition to that, the market of 12" Android tablet is extremely small, as there is barely any apps optimized for larger display. Id even argue that its also the case with 10". 12" simply amplifies the issue even more.

It does exactly that. In fact, its the only way to charge the keyboard.

The problem with magnetic charger is there is no standard. Everyone uses proprietary connection, which means if your friend/family doesn’t have the same brand of product as the one you use, youre pretty much SOL. There is a reason why even Apple abandoned it.

This is actually a brilliant idea. @Team can we partner up with some online storage companies like Dropbox or OneDrive?