Eve team and engineers Q&A

v
qanda
engineer
official
development

#1

Hey Eve Family!

Here is the Q&A you helped us create a while ago. @Helios was pushing me everyday to finish it. I am sorry for being slow with answers on it. Thanks to all of you who asked questions and especially to @Helios for bearing my lame excuses not to answer to all those questions earlier:)

###Eve Q&A

@Zwehn
Q: Did you solve the headphone plugin noise?
A: Yes we did by switching a transistor on the motherboard. Listening to music on the V is something I really like to brag about as it’s great!

Thanks for spotting the issue in the first place!

@Zwehn
Q: Could the size of the USB connector be widened to enable every USB device to fit in?
A: We have tested our device with a lot of different USB sticks and they all fit fine. Maybe your prototype had older housing.

But generally when you start using V ports are a little bit tight. That is done on purpose to make sure that over time (we made 5k plug in plug out test) the port doesnt get loose. Shortly after you start using your device ports would get to optimal experience.

@Konstantin
Q: Please confirm, that when charge reach 100%, V automatic switches to AC to preserve battery life.
A: Yep, confirmed! :slight_smile:

@mtaki14
Q: Have the battery charging issues been resolved? Has the cause of the problem been pinpointed?
(referring to: ‘[H] [Power] Can’t charge over 89%’)
A: Absolutely! In fact we have made few more tweaks to our firmware and overall power consumption went down!

@Zwehn & @Giome
Q: What is the reason for the GPS chip to get no signal, and what has to be changed to make it work in future versions of the V?
A: There is not enough plastic (conductive material) on the device. Basically to implement LTE or GPS we would need to make plastic area near speakers wider, as there isn’t enough width. The reason we could not do it is that it was hard to find a good looking and solid implementation. As it means we have to extend injection molding over the back which makes it look like the whole plastic piece will fall off.

We will make sure to add GPS to our LTE model that will be coming later down the line. But for now it requires quite more work still.

###Shipping & Warranty:

@Alexander_Halbarth
Q: Will it be possible to add and ship V pen tips with our initial IGG/Backerkit orders?
A: Glad to announce that all IndieGoGo backers will get spare pen tips as part of their order. So no worries :wink:

@Alexander_Halbarth
Q: Will it be possible to charge the V with a quality non USB-PD charger/power bank?
A: Yes, as long as it outputs power. If it outputs less then V consumes with screen on then juice will run out slower or charge slowly.

@Alexander_Halbarth
Q: Can it harm other components if you use a higher TDP(Max)? Is this tested, and up to which TDP setting is covered by warranty?
A: So here’s the thing. We will ship V’s with 7W TDP by default and it will be very easy to change it to 4.5W in BIOS (one setting) but that is the maximum our partners agreed to cover. We have tested V running higher TDP, like 11, 15, etc and it still all worked fine as when CPU would get too hot it would run into thermal limit.

But we cannot give users warranty that we don’t get form vendors so you can run it above 7W but we can’t guarantee 100% that no other component would get damaged. But generally it should not as Thermal limit will prevent the damage.

@Zwehn
Q: Is there a chance for a future V to enable easier maintenance (access to battery, ssd, display through windows in the frame)?
A: After seeing an article from iFixit about new Surface repairability score we realized that that’s the direction we should aim for in the future. V is super easy to assemble/disassemble as long as you open up the screen.

@Sluze
Q: Will the display be HDR capable? (Dolby Vision, HDR 10 etc.)
A: Nope, it’s not but it’s a great display with 100% sRGB coverage and 450 nits brightness.

###Other:

@nawthor
Q: Would it be possible to get to see the localized chargers and/or keyboards (and eventual prototypes)?
A: We are now taking photos of all of the accessories for our new web store and we will definitely share pictures with community!

@Kuri64
Q: I have seen quite some benchmarks results (thanks to all testers) for the i5 version. Anything similar for the i7 version?
A: Yeah! I got some results from Touch XPRT benchmark. Generally i7 would give you around 15% increase in CPU performance over i5.

We will be sending our devices for review soon so you will see a lot of benchmarks coming very soon!

@Mlivesey
Q: If I ever visit Finland, can I meet your cat, and more importantly, will you cook me dinner?
A:

Parmigiano is waiting for you. No Joke! Would be awesome to see you here!

@iKirin
Q: Which component was the most difficult to design on the V?
A: Hinge! That little buddy took a while to figure out. Why?
The main reason for that is if look closely you would notice that V has a very narrow gap between the kickstand the actual housing. So when hinge opens up it must first lift up and only then start moving as otherwise it would have scratched the housing.

Also this little bad boy needs to pass 15,000 opening and closing lifetime test (standard is 8k but we wanted to be sure its durable)

@fanoftech4life
Q: Which component took the most time to find the right one for the V?
A: Screen. the reason for that is because there are a lot of mid-range screens on the market. But all of the really good high end screens either have huge flaws or exclusive to some clients. So for example Asus TP3 is a great example of a device with obviously flawed screen. The screen flaw was its power consumption. Originally it was designed with 450 nits brightness. But power consumption was around 12 Watts so they had to drop the brightness to 200. As for proprietary screens good example is iPad pro screen or Samsung tab pro S OLED display.

So yeah screen was and is by far the hardest component. As we get bigger it will get easier for us to find great screens. By bigger I mean amount of devices sold not team members :slight_smile:

@kazenorin
Q: Which component are you guys (in engineering terms) most proud of? (Please don’t say every single part)
A: Mechanical design and layout inside the device. Engineering team had a very high bar set of achieving jewelry level tolerances foe device during production. Meaning that all of the gaps mast stay as tiny as possible, all the moving parts have to move flawlessly while looking elegant. Also the motherboard designed to be as small as possible so that more battery would fit in!

Also guys are happy about all of the small details like audio amp, mics, cooling and so on.

@kazenorin
Q: What was (in terms of engineering) far more challenging than the team would have expected?
A: Working with our industrial designers. As all spaces have to be even. ports and holes aligned, radii equal.

Click here to see a few slides of the communication between our mechanical design and industrial design teams :)








@fanoftech4life
Q: Do you have an office for all the engineers to meet?
A: Yep! It happens in China typically as all of the supply chain is there. Most of the time we communicate online.

@xDrako
Q: What is your overall impression of the V and the Project?
A: It took much longer then expected. But it’s totally worth & we love it! We are proud of the results achieved! Also we learned immense amount of things and next time we are starting a new project we will be able to avoid a lot of mistakes!

Community aspect of it was especially amazing with all the passion you dudes have put and support. It really made it what it is!

###About the project:

@fanoftech4life
Q: How many different manufacturers are you using to source all the components?
A: Too many:) At least 30 for major components. And then they have their own manufacturers (2nd tier) and then there is the third, fourth, fifth, etc tier :slight_smile:

@kazenorin
Q: Apart from the well known DVT1, 2 and 3; how many distinct classes of prototypes were produced?
A: Good question!

There were some mockups first. Even paper ones :slight_smile:

After that there were more high fidelity ones.

As for the working protos we had

EVT (electrical validation stage) around 5 protos that were revised few times
Then DVT 1, 2, 3, 4 and I think 5 :slight_smile:
Also we had PVT prototypes. (Mini Mp ones)

Overall we have built, over 150 test devices during the project.

@Kuri64
Q: What are your current aging test mission profiles? (Testing conditions and use cases)
A: Bunch of tests! You can see pretty much all of there here: [15.05.17] V entering production and taking the stage at Computex

@Kuri64
Q: What is the current results of battery life and under which mission profiles (from Eve’s current internal results)
A: We have just ran a test with latest firmware changes. Actually we tested against the surface Pro with help of @Alexandr_Smirnov. So new surface pro and V were both playing a YouTube video with 20% brightness streaming from the web. V lasted 9 hours, surface lasted 6 hours 40 minutes.

On Idle V lasts around 16-18 hours

Review will come out soon with way more results.

@Kuri64
Q: What has been done until now to optimize power consumption, and how much room remains for improvement?
A: Mainly firmware changes and driver updates. Latest BIOS and EC we have have produced substantial increase in battery life. We will be able to increase battery life further with updates once we ship!

We also would like to create custom power plans together with community to create ultra power saving mode, etc.

@dibadibadu
Q: Are the hinges of the kickstand strong enough to support the weight of the entire device? (To create a VESA mount that holds the V by the opened kickstand only)
A: Depends on the angle. But basically yes. I have to say we have not tested it for that use case :slight_smile:

Glad to answer any other questions!


Community Digest 11.07
Got questions about the V? (Q&A with Konsta & engineers)
[SPOILERS!] Official Collection of Eve V reviews Wiki
#2

Thanks a lot for your answers.


#3

That is really great thank you very much! :smiley:

And thanks for your effort answering all these questions :slight_smile:


#4

This is the kind of attention to detail that most, if not all, of the users wont even notice, but yet you worked hard on it. I am super impressed.

Which one did you end up with, and why?


#5

7W by default. I am impressed :grin:
Best part is, we can go even higher!
Or can go down to 4.5W if necessary.


#6

Oh thanks for the kind words! We had lots of that. With all of your support we want nothing less then the best we can do make a great device!




#7

Thank you for the answers!

It’s lovely to see how detailed and difficult it is to make everything perfect!

Cheers for everyone involved! :smiley:


#8

Very interesting to see a peek into the engineering/design process. Thank you.


#9

I’m loving the Emdoor-Propeller “conversations” :joy:


#10

Great, that sounds awesome! If this is true in real life it was perfect to (endure the) wait for the V.

And thanks a lot for all that insight, especially into the display choosing. I was always wondering why so many devices ship with such dark garbage displays. The power consumption figures of that Asus device are very interesting.


#11

Thanks for all the answers! It makes for a very interesting read :slight_smile:
Also, I’m really happy about the complimentary pen-tips, I’ll be needing them for sure as I will do a lot of note taking and drawing on the V.
Cheers folks, I really hope all goes reasonably well from now on, you deserve it! :slight_smile:


#12

On a 48wHr battery, that averages 2.67-3w power consumption lol. That’s crazy low, even for idle.

9hrs streaming = 5.33w platform power consumption. That’s also very low…especially considering the components involved. CPU, iGPU, WiFi, display, storage, RAM, speakers (I assume). I can’t imagine you knocking it down that much lower…but if it can be improved with firmware updates, yes please!

THIS part is cool, though. Looking at the numbers, that also means the Surface has a 6.75w platform power consumption (6h40m/45wHr battery), which is 26% more power than V! Cool!


#13

As a comparison the similarly-sized 12.9" iPad Pro lasts 10.5 hours playing a locally-stored video, which ends up as around 3.7 W. How much would a WiFi chip, if you had to guess?


#14

I’m very impressed that Emdoor and Propeller got this far without killing each other.


#15

I have read the ifixit report for surface pro as well, much room for improvement for MS.
Would be good to see a very detailed discription how to open the V / the screen from the body (i know the gurantee will be a problem). Our protoTester P. got some expierence but screen gets defect. Hope V could be improved for future versions.

In general I hate to see that more and more devices where glued but have batteries inside which have to be exchanged over the life.


#16

@Konstantinos Appreciate the collection of questions and answers! Glad you found time within your busy schedule to type these out and share with us. It’s always exciting to get first hand insights!


#17

Included spare pen nibs FTW!

Thanks @Konstantinos!


#18

Follow-up question about the Hinge: how many degrees will it open and are there picture comparisons with the SP4 and New SP?

So far I haven’t seen pics of the V in any other position than upright but would love to know beforehand. thanks!


#19

Q: When the shop goes online, how can we pay? PayPal, MasterCard/Visa? What payment options do you offer?


#20

Shop will go online in the end of July. We take paypal and all sorts of Debit/Credit cards