Eve surface book competitor?


#1

Question for the developers: is there any chance that there will be a Eve in the future that would combat the surface book? The surface book seems quite interesting, as a 2-in-1 it has a quad core, and if I don’t mistake the keyboard part also has a nvidia dedicated graphics card and some extra battery juice. This would make it useful as a laptop and give the ability to use it as tablet when needed (I think that a nvidia graphics card wouldn’t be recommended for tablet use because of power and heating). But it is quite pricey so maybe an Eve version would be nice! The thing is that the surface book lacks stuff for its price, such as thunderbolt and such. Comparable to the surface pro, I think eve can improve on the concept and make it more affordable. :slight_smile:
Another thing that Eve could do: make a surface book like thing that also could be used such as lenovo Yoga. I have heard lenovo when standing up in yoga position (let’s call it that way, don’t know the real name) can project a keyboard for typing. This would be great, since the use of the integrated windows keyboard when using computer windows does interfere with the programs. I haven’t tried the tablet version of windows yet, so don’t know how it would work over there. For such a thing I would happely pay the price of a surface book, since it has more value with this technologie and with the extra connectivity such as thunderbolt.


#2

Honestly i found the formfactor of the surface book more appealing than that of the SP4 or the V for that matter. It’s just way too expensive and for that price offers too many flaws and too little functionality.
I’d be very happy to see a competitor :smiley:


#3

I also said that to a friend of mine, he is a die hard apple fan and had some troubles with indiegogo so he told me to take my money back because I will lose it according to him, and to put my money in a apple pro or macbook. I told him to fuck off with his apple gear, since apple does not have a 2-in-1 system, it has the ipad pro as upgraded tablet, but it is not as functional as a surface which can act as a computer and as a tablet. Than he told me ‘it is better to waste my money on the existing microsoft lineup that is more expensive than apple than to take a risk with the eve V’. But since microsoft lineup is more expensive than the eve competition, and eve has things to offer such as thunderbolt, I would not buy a surface pro nor a surface book.

But after the conversation, I did some research on the surface book and I guess that would be more something for me as a concept. I still like the concept of the eve V, but a surface book seems to have more flexibility and is more sufficient far what I would need. So Eve, please make some Eve surface book thingy, I would spend all my savings on it! well, not all, but a lot of it.


#4

The Surface Book form factor and the fact the tablet detaches from the keyboard raises center of gravity issues (hence that proprietary hinge they developed). That’s also why I like more the concept of convertibles (those touch laptops which have a hinge that rotates 360°) :wink:


#5

I’d still rather buy a surface device than an apple (and if im not mistaken even surface is cheaper than apple)
I’m not a fan of the 360 convertibles. I mean sure its a nice feature to have in a laptop but i don’t see it being very useful. It just becomes a really fat tablet with a keyboard on the back when you convert it :smiley:

I guess the form factors all have their pros and cons but for me it’s surface book > surface pro > 360 degree


#6

For me a 2-in-1 like lenovo yoga are just laptops like another. But if you are able to detach the screen, such as with the surface book, I would call it a 2-in-1. You don’t have the bulk of the keyboard when using it as a tablet, so it can compete with a surface pro and a ipad pro and those things. And the idea of using the keyboard as a external gpu would be great. Snap on the keyboard, and you have a laptop which can do heavy tasks and even decent gaming, detach the keyboard and you have a tablet/surface pro which is good enough for tablet use. For me the main factor is detaching the keyboard and the surface, rotating it 360° would just be a great way to stand the laptop, not for tablet use.


#7

Little functionality:
Do you mean the limited viewing angles and battery life?

For me the thing that bothered me the most with the surface book was the fact that the viewing angles are SO limited.

The battery life when used only as a tablet was also poor.

The issue in this form factor is weight distribution; either you can’t detach the tablet part OR you have to make the keyboard really heavy AND limit viewing angles.

I just really don’t see how you can make an appealing form factor with these ingredients (though I have to admit I haven’t been able to dedicate a lot of time thinking about alternative solutions)


#8

Thanks for answering! Battery life and such can be improved on I think. It is like you did improve on the eve V. I didn’t mean the viewing angles and batterylife but things such as thunderbolt and USB C 3.1 gen 2. Now they have 2 usb A 3.0 and 2 surface ports. There should be a usb C with usb 3.1 gen2 and a thunderbolt 3.0 in my opinion. It leaves to options for fast external storage, for external gpu (if there would be a need for it). It is like Eve V did with the surface pro: make it better and make it more affordable. The 360° laptops aren’t able to charm me, I don’t want the bulk of the keyboard at the back when I’m using it as tablet. Surely because it would interfere with the cooling.

The way the surface book can stand like a laptop is more appealing to me than the way surface pro stand. Surely on small tables where there is a risk of pushing it over the edge. also, if you want to use it as a laptop on your lap, the surface pro doesn’t feel as safe as a laptop. The thin keyboard on this surface pro 3 has seen some use, and no tends to be flimsy. That is also why i would prefer a laptop based 2-in-1 over a tablet based 2-in-1 (such as the surface pro). But I don’t like the laptops that you can rotate 360 degrees to use it as a tablet. The only thing I would like about those 360 laptops is what lenovo does: when standing like their yoga, it projects the keyboard.

For a surface pro or an eve V I would likely make a laptop like casing, to use it as a laptop so that I don’t have the risk related to the used kickstand (it dropping over the edge of the table). It may seem ridiculous, but the tables in our auditoria are tiny for a surface pro, I have seen several dropping over the edge. Some did survive, others didn’t do that well. For on my desk and large tables I would trust the surface pro/eve V stand, since there is no big risk of it falling over the edge. So for me, a surface book like 2-in-1 would be the best solution. Hence the question if there would be such a thing in the lineup of eve.

Also question: How would the viewing angles be more limited than with a 360 laptop? They also have to counterbalance, but indeed they can put some things in the keyboard to save weight out of the screen. For the surface book type thing, the counterbalance can also be used as something useful, such as a dedicated gpu, an extra battery and maybe what could also be possible (I am not schooled in electronics, but maybe an extra cpu or such?). So in that way, it is not just some extra mass. And by splitting the tablet necessary hardware in the tablet and the other stuff on the keyboard, you can have a great laptop and great tablet in 1. I for instance would be best of with a quad core processor, and for gpu I can always rely on the thunderbolt connection or the gpu in the keyboard. Ofcourse it wouldn’t be something for anybody, for my it would just be the best scenario.


#9

Perhaps this isn’t the best answer (especially given that it isn’t being updated to Kaby Lake, and it’s from Acer), but an interesting approach could be something like what the Acer R13 attempted (as far as unique hinge designs, addressing some issues like keyboard placement in tablet mode, etc): Acer R13 R7-372T

It allowed the device to serve as a laptop well while mitigating some issues of the Yoga-style 360 hinges, and if there were a way to improve such a hinge system (minimize footprint relative to screen size, etc.), and perhaps even make it removable to address the surface book use case, it could be an interesting starting point. It’s somewhat how Microsoft went with the Studio, now that I think about it. In any case, I think that getting thee ideas going is a great way to get some improvements thought out for this type of device!


#10

I just think as a whole it doesn’t fit the price. The base model has a tiny 128GB SSD, 8GB ram and an i5 dualcore with no dgpu. I think for this product to be competitive a dgpu is a must in the base and they packed in some custom gpu which is a little weaker than a 940m as far as I know. Considering were now already at a minimum price of about 2000 Euros, i would at least expect more perfomance and storage problems havn’t been solved either.

Regarding functionality: yes it has a pen and is detachable and usable as a tablet. On the other hand there is no thunderbolt, no usb c, no ethernet and the list goes on. The only ports are 2 full size usb and a displayport which is ridiculous for a device where you have room for ports on the tablet part itself + on a keyboard base. There is as much if not more room for ports as on a normal laptop.
I forgot to mention that it also has a 3.5mm jack (good :slight_smile:) and the surface charging port, and I’d much prefer it charging via usb c.
Whoever decided to give it an SD card reader where SD cards are sticking out of the side of the laptop (and I’m not talking about a tiny bit) when inserted deserves a slap.
The hinge has this weird space between screen and keyboard when closed.
Battery time on the surface book is good but battery on the tablet without the base is quite bad. To use it as a tablet for a longer time you have to disconnect the keyboard, turn the tablet 180 degrees, reattach it and close it. This doesn’t seem like an optimal way to do it and then you have another fat tablet like the yoga series (except at least it doesnt have a keyboard on the back :smiley:)
If i remember correctly the whole thing has to be turned on to be seperated from the base in the first place.

I’ve probably forgotten to mention a few things but this is what spontaneously came to my mind. This may have seemed like a bit of a rant at times and I actually think it’s a very nice product, but with that pricetag I think it has some flaws which are just not acceptable.

I don’t really mind the keyboard being a bit heavier, it would foremost be a laptop after all, if the weight is “well invested”. The keyboard base of the surface book could house a way stronger gpu, a battery and completely erase the need for a surface dock (maybe that’s why they decided to put only 2 usb ports and a display port on the bottom :stuck_out_tongue:), it could also house additional storage, possibly even somehow aid in cooling or offer easy upgradeability (theres not too much going on in there).
You could offer different bases based on user profiles (stronger gpu for gamers, more battery for travelers or more storage for professionals as an example) and also offer just buying a new base as an easy way of upgrading your system and offering a little boost, and maybe at some point when the cpu is outdated upgrading the tablet part.

I think this formfactor is not just “the 2 in 1 you can easily use on tiny desks, desks with a decline or no desks at all, like your sofa, bed or floor”.
I believe it has a lot of untapped potential and I would be happy to see a surface book 2 and I guess even more so to see one being designed by eve :smiley:


#11

It doesn’t have a quad core CPU… It’s the same as Surface Pro 4 except the attachable GPU.
And there is no “tablet version of Windows”.


#12

Just a couple comments…[quote=“Brecht_Schatteman, post:8, topic:4155”]
Surely because it would interfere with the cooling
[/quote]

Won’t you use lighter the device as tablet primarily while watching movies or drawing with the pen or maybe even light apps? I wouldn’t and I think you too wouldn’t use it for productivity - if I want to be productive, Ill use the keyboard and a mouse using the device as a laptop.

Do people attach the keyboards to the SP4? Maybe the best option is to (in the Eve V case) put the Eve V on the desk as a monitor and use the keyboard wirelessly on your lap :wink:


#13

Nope, that ain’t happening. CPU stands for Central Processing Unit, so, as you guessed it, the key word here is “central” :smiley:
There are servers that use several CPUs at a time, but those are special CPUs designed to work in clusters (Xeon). Also, I don’t know that exactly, but I think such servers wouldn’t even boot without filling all the CPU slots.

And I totally understand you on the auditorium thing. In our university, the tables are basically the height of an A4 sheet, so when I put a standard A4 notebook on it, there’s not enough space for a pencil case :neutral_face: so I basically have to break into someone’s else “territory” if I want to have some extra pens at hand :smile:


#14

I’ve seen this in a number of organisations when people with SPs are away from their own desk - they usually prefer the keyboard to on screen typing / and or pen


#15

I have to say that I couldn’t have said it better than ToiletSheep did. I also had thought about it aiding with cooling, but I couldn’t think of a way. Maybe it can have some venting ducts between the tablet and the keyboard, with a peltier element in the keyboard for cooling? Kind of like that Line Dock thing that was suggested on the thread about cooling pad. With the extra batteries in the keyboard part, it wouldn’t interfere with the tablets life span. Another idea is based on what I have seen with microsoft and asus: Microsoft uses a kind of watercooling to distribute the cpu heat to other locations. And Asus has a water cooled laptop which does fit in an external watercooling dock so that the laptop van be used as a gaming desktop with sufficient cooling. If the water-based heat distribution of the surface pro, could be combined with a peltier cooling element in the keyboard part such as the lining dock, using a water cooling connection such as asus proves is possible, that would be the most ideal for having supplementary cooling in the keyboard part

Charging via usb C would be great, but than the tablet part does need a second usb-C port, so that you can charge and can still connect external storage with music for example (I do use a usb C external storage). I also agree about the keyboard weight: the weight it needs to counterweight the tablet can be used useful, by eGPU and extra batteries and extra storage and such, and that way it wouldn’t bother that much. And the ability to swap keyboards based on needs would be great. For my classes, I will need the extra battery, for at home I would need the performance GPU for rendering. Also a possibility is to have a desktop-keyboard-dock for at home, just like the keyboard base, but bigger for the use of a more powerful gpu (I can guess the powerconsumption of a gtx 960/1960 would be large compared to the batteries in the kayboard part). At my desk is the only place where I would need a powerfull GPU, so the desktop like setup would be good. It is a possibility. And for families it can also do wonders: everyone has there own laptop, but when one need a big gpu or such things, they can go to the desktop-dockstation to do the task with there own tablet. No need for the parents to open up there own laptop for the children who needs a performance bigger than what their devices have. Interchangeability is the keyfactor I guess.

@pauliunas I think I mixed up between the surface book and the vaio Z canvas on that part, my bad. And I was suspecting that there couldn’t be a eCPU. Another possibility is to have a CPU which differentiates between when keyboard attached and when not attached, such as a cpu having different TPD (and that way different clock speed) depending on whether the keyboard is attached or not, such as a quad core cpu which shuts down 2 cores when used as tablet (kind of like how car manufacturers shuts down some of the cilinders). Or have 2 dual core processors with one only activated when the keyboard is attached. This way you can prevent the extra heat when used as tablet, without sacrificing performance when used as laptop.

@Artur For productivity, yes I would use the keyboard and such. But my experience with the surface pro learns that it can heat up pretty hot to the touch while using google chrome for browsing. For use as tablet, I think the keyboard would interfere with cooling, and for the other part would just be bulk interfering with the use as tablet. So for that, I think it would be better to have it detachable for tablet use. And I would invite you to our auditoria, where the lap visibility isn’t that great, and I have tried but never succeeded to learn blind typing, and many others aren’t able to type blindly (ofcourse, they can it partially but from time to time still have to check).


#16

About the hinge design: asus has the transformer book series, which don’t use the complicated hinge that microsoft uses. Don’t know about the usability and practicality though.


#17

That hinge is horrible (in my experience dealing with one) and the keyboard itself should be heavy or the tablet is far lighter :wink:


#18

Of course the keyboard would have some weight, but the keyboard is only necessary when using it as a laptop, so for the tablet use it wouldn’t matter. And as I said, the needed counterweight can be filled in by extra battery and a dGPU and maybe as someone pointed out, as extra storage. If Microsoft and asus can do it, I think Eve can do it too


#19

Hi there.
I agree that the next campaign should be the competitor of Microsoft Book. I have also the plan of how it will be.
Have you ever had a look on Toshiba Portege z20t? For me it is a small diamond as an idea but it lost something during manufacturing. This thing has 2*36Wh battery if I remember well and its design is like Surface book but instead of stupid supports, it has a very strong steel clip.
Also, the most advantage of all is the stylus which is incorporated in the tablet. Ofc, the position is awful, but the idea is magnificent. Like the samsung note.

For me, and I don’t know about the rest members of the community, the next campaign should include a V that will have the stylus pen incorporated, and under the keyboard, you will include additional battery juice and ofc, something that no competitors has, a dedicated GPU. Imagine that you have only the CPU on the tablet and the GPU and a fan on the keyboard for heavier tasks. I don’t know if this is feasible due to motherboard, but there should be a way. Also, the keyboard should include hdmi/vga and maybe an ethernet port for some countries where the wifi still has issues…

I would suggest to open a survey in order to discuss furthere this idea.

Also, I would try to cut further down the cost, without to lose from the quality. For example, I believe that the time and the management are important. I don’t know a lot of stuff but I believe that if you use V as a base for the next design and considering that the cost will be lower due to the mass production, with additional 200 US dollars that book would be achievable with nvidia 940m GPU.

P.S. I was wondering if you could imagine to use Nvidia Tegra X1 in that book


#21

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