EVE next project and why it should be a laptop (update)


#61

A good post. Worth thinking about. I’m very price-conscious, so I count every feature and try to think about possible compromises and financial drawbacks, but there absolutely is a perspective of Eve as a company. Most of the time it should be similar to perspective of the customer - but a customer en masse, not as a single person. For example: me. : )


#62

Isn’t this basically what the Surface Book has? Starting from the i5 version, I think. Or did they put the GPU into the screen?


#63

Definitely! Think of this way: you have an upper tablet portion but if really don’t want to ever use it like a tablet, you never have to. Some benefits: you can choose to upgrade the top tablet portion on its own in the future so you get a better screen or processor. Or you can choose down the road to upgrade the bottom keyboard base on its own so you get better graphics. You wouldn’t have to upgrade your whole computer at this same time this way, saving you a lot of money. What do you think? Merits and downsides?


#64

Yes. The problem with the Surface Book is they use a proprietary Surface Connector plug, you also cannot buy the keyboard base separately, and it has just GTX 960 graphics. Imagine if Eve made a Surface Book but with:

-Up to a GTX 1080 in the keyboard base
-Its keyboard dock connector is standard Thunderbolt 3 (so you can use it with other devices as well)
-Its tablet portion has a quad-core processor (Surface Book is just dual-core)
-Both the keyboard and tablet are cross-compatible (via the standardized Thunderbolt 3 docking connector) with newer and older versions of the product

For example, you could upgrade either the tablet portion or the keyboard dock (cross-compatible between newer versions of the product thanks to the standard Thunderbolt 3 connector) whenever you want. You aren’t forced to upgrade your entire laptop all at once. Also, for people who want the functionality, the tablet portion up top can separate and has N-trig pen support.

Maybe this is too lofty of a goal, too much for Eve to handle, or something most people wouldn’t like. I think being able to just upgrade my graphics on my laptop would be a very good reason for me to buy this. This is just me personally, but I normally don’t spend more than $1000 on a laptop or tablet but I would in this case.


#65

Is there no Wacom love? :slight_smile:

Though hopefully the new dual protocol pen will bring Ntrig one step closer.


#66

I actually prefer EMR as well but I just went with N-trig since that is the more popular choice here. Hopefully, the dual protocol pen does fix the last few outstanding very minor issues.


#67

Up to a GTX 1080 in a keyboard base with Thunderbolt 3? Is that even possible? I mean all thunderbolt 3 enclosure are made for standart desktop card but I’ve never seen one for MXM cards.


#68

Like you say, there is an MXM mobile version of the GTX 1080 and that could be put into the keyboard base. MXM also uses PCIe to talk with the graphics so it could would over Thunderbolt 3 via the proposed connector. As for cooling, there are laptops with GTX 1080 graphics. Outlay the keyboard base with the appropriate cooling like these gaming laptops do and it would all work. In fact, you might even be able to overclock the GTX 1080 higher than most gaming laptops. The reason being is only the graphics would be expelling heat in the keyboard base, completely separate from the heat of the processor in the upper tablet portion.


#69

I honestly don’t see much market for that. Upgrading in general is problematic: not only from design standpoint, but because every project takes enormous amount of time and effort, you are anchored to earlier decisions in a changed landscape. Suddenly the choices made for future compatibly sake are simply problematic.
Thats why I proposed more traditional take on the What Next problem.


#70

I think we can all agree that in order for Eve to stand out, they need to differentiate themselves from the Lenovos of the world.

While we seem to be focusing on doing this by “out-teching” the competition (faster, stronger, etc) what about if we brought back something that is sorely missing in all these new gizmos? Along @Hifihedgehog’s “upgrade the screen and keyboard separately” theme - what if we focused on making a laptop (please with a 360 hinge!) that is TOTALLY serviceable? It won’t be as sleek as the V, but if we made something you could upgrade ram, or put a new HD in, or replace the battery, or do whatever it is you want to do, you could? Much like there are many people who seek out a cell phone specifically because it has a replaceable battery, I suspect there would be people who would get really excited about it…


#71

I agree. Thunderbolt 3 is limited as it is and it will eventually become too much of a bottleneck for future GPUs. We also do not know how long it be around before it is replaced by another port technology. So going with a laptop, would making it completely serviceable like @mlivesey says be a good idea? Does the 360 hinge still fit in or should we scrap that as well?


#72

I’m going to pretend you didn’t say that… :wink:


#73

I would like it. I was just seeing what the OP thought. :wink:


What Next on 2in1 form factor?
#74

For these modes:


It is not really meant for tablet mode, that would to bulky, but a quad core tablet would also be to bulky. If you have a 180° hinge than you can mimmick these functionalities but than the kayboard part would get in the way. When laying it flat on the table so that you can get around it with a group than it would be handy that the keyboard part is under the screen and not beside it. Than the laptop would only take half as much space. Really handy for small tables. And why would you want to have the screen upright but the keyboard part at the back? So that you can use an external keyboard since many laptops lack a decent keyboard (lacking nuympad, function keys, to soft or to hard etc). Or when drawing, than you don’t need to fear hitting a button or the trackpad. Or to decrease the distance between you and the screen. When watching a movie, the 20cm can make a difference in experience. When video editing, than I don’t need to type and than the 20cm would make the screen more useful for me, certainly if it is a 1440p than I would get more use out of the limited laptop screen. Ofcourse, it is all about your own perception. If you don’t find a mechanical keyboard better than a laptop one, and if you are not going to draw on it, or watch movies or what other things can profit from those 360° unique positions, if you don’t find a touchscreen useful… than you don’t have a need for 360° hinge. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be useful to others and probably you will use it at some time. I don’t use trackpads on laptops since I have grown up with a computer mouse and that makes more sense to me than a trackpad. Certainly if the trackpad doesn’t have a dedicated right and left click button. But with the surface and that multi gesture trackpad, I do sometimes use it just because of convenience/laziness. Would I pay extra for it? no, most of the times I use the pen/touchscreen or a mouse. But I see the convenience it has for those who would pay more for it. I guess for you it would be the same. You don’t want to pay a higher price for it, but if it comes with something you want (in this case a workstation laptop) than you would see why some would pay more for it.


#75

well 360° hinge is okay under these circumstances:

  • hinge is very stable and reliable AND wont break
  • keyboard is disabled, when in “tablet”-mode
  • 360* hinge enriches the design and doesnt make it ugly
  • Screen has smaller bezles than the dell one
  • trackpad is super great, because trackpad is essential for many people

Me, too, but sometimes it´s just impossible to use a mouse (e.g on train, bus, etc.) and i dont want to be limited because of a bad trackpad. A touchscreen cant replace a trackpad.


#76

I think the bezels on the dell one are decent. That was a dell inspiron 17" 2 in 1 so affordable. Smaller bezels do come with a higher cost in the laptop world. It can be that it doesn’t change that much on initial cost, but the companies do know how to ask some 100 bucks more because of it, if it is not more than 100 bucks. I think a normal 360° wouldn’t be less reliable than a 180° hinge, but there are companies who know to screw it up. The trackpad should be great for those who uses trackpads, that I would not take away. But I barely do use the multigesture trackpad so I won’t really need a giant multigesture trackpad. But to reach out for more customers, a great trackpad should be used since it should be able to be used as a regular laptop, not as a compromised laptop.

neither can a trackpad replace a mouse for me. But for a friend of me it is the other way around (a mouse can’t replace his superior apple trackpads). I do sometimes use the trackpad on my laptop, such as when needing to scan some things, than I just take my laptop to the scanner and don’t take a mouse with me. And the trackpad is sufficient for that. But I can imagine people needing multi gesture trackpads, I have seen the use in it on the surface pro (such as swiping through programs).


#77

I agree on that…they are decent. I just like the idea, that you can put a bigger screen into a smaller body with small bezles. I would really like to see a 15" Screen in a 14" housing…

People have different opinions…that´s why we should create a device that fits everyone…that means EVE “Laptop” should have a 360° hinge, touchscreen and a big (at least last gen MBP sized) trackpad.


#78

I have no experience with how big the MBP trackpad is, although in pictures it seems huge in comparison to the rest. If it has some kind of ‘palm rejection’ than I won’t mind it being there. A 15" screen in a 14" size also seems like a good idea, although I hope that it doesn’t ramp up the costs to much. But if possible, I would like that more than a 14" screen in a 14" size. But if Eve is able to deliver those things (small bezels, 360° hinge, touchscreen, great trackpad, quadcore/hexacore with 4GB VRAM, thunderbolt port and regular USB A 3.0 ports, great battery/batterylife) for a price lower than what Lenovo asks for the Yoga 720, it would be a good convertible. If it does manage to get it cheaper than laptops with the same specs, than it would be a great laptop. I hope it can manage that last one, that would get the most support. I think it is possible that it wouldn’t be more expensive than a laptop counter part, and it certainly can be a lot cheaper than the convertibles with some performance from nowadays.


#79

I will try and answer properly later: but how would you really balance between bezels needed for comfortable use of tablet mode in 360 convertible and crazy small bezels that would be nice to have in laptop mode?

Right now I still think that 360 hinge results in feature creep.


#80

Here is what I see so far from the general consensus:

The following feature is largely unwanted and probably best not discussed further:
-Surface Book-like detachable keyboard

The following feature is still up to debate and needs further consideration:
-360-degree hinge

The following feature is almost universally accepted and likely to stay:
-User accessible and serviceable components (including GPU)

The last two features are the only ones still in the running or being considered. Is it also fair to say the very last one is definite?