eGPU + Y - Fan =?


#1

So I was just wondering how did people get to a conclusion to ditch the fan and go for Y.
As I see it it would make more sense to have a fan which you could then turn on when you connect V to eGPU and charger. And for playing games you would need U since games are not burst mode type of application.

I imagine that even with eGPU Y and no fan could still bottle-neck gaming performance.
I think that having a fan has no drawbacks to the design if you could control it.

Going from Y to U might, but probably not to much.

Just saying that with fan and U, device could be more capable in different scenarios.


#2

maybe bcz when deciding on the specs the decided on NOT gaming on the V?


#3

Gaming performance beteeen the Y and the U series processors isn’t that much. Both will bottleneck hard. Anyways, the V implantation gets close to U performances and the eGPU does pretty well with all things considered. I’m very impressed.

Check out some benchmarks from a fellow user if you haven’t already.


#4

I believe the community wanted a fan less design because…

  1. The lack of noise makes for a more pleasant user experience.
  2. Not having to drive a fan should increase battery life

Gaming performance was really not a priority because the V is not designed to be a gaming machine, but some people wanted to try and use one device for everything, so the compromise was to include a TB3 port to allow eGPU (and other stuff).


#5

From what I recall, early on in the project, it was mentioned how many people found it annoying that their Surface Pro fan would kick on and sometimes be the only thing heard in a quiet room. It was also mentioned that better cooling solutions might be available (heat sink) and if I recall correctly, at the time it was thought going with the Y series would keep costs down for us customers, while maintaining similar performance to the Surface Pro. Also, Y series was at least 6 months from being released, and the Eve V was originally going to be one of the first devices with the processor line. Keep in mind, this was before the delays due to screen supplier issues, which added nearly 6 months to the original timeline. (I’m approximating from my experience.)


#6

I tried to be clear in my post that these can’t be the reasons not to have fan.
If these were the reason then logic was completely off.

I wanted to point out that you could have a fan and still have a silent device by not using the fan while in tablet mode. Fan would only kick in while in gaming mode and connected to eGPU so there would be no drawback in having a fan.

Also I don’t think it is logical to assume that fan less Y would perform the same as fanned U.
Going with with both U and fan should surly increase frame rates, and every FPS increase in these devices is huge boost. Going from 30 to 60 FPS might not even be noticeable. But going from 20 to 30 would.

I am trying to build eGPU so this is why I started thinking about it.
And the more I thought about it the less it made sense to have this kind of decisions.


#7

Nobody was expecting the Y to perform as an U could, who even said that?

Fanless is fanless. If you don’t want fans kicking in randomly (yes they will do that when a Windows process decides to go haywire for awhile).


#8

With two games that I tried and are really CPU intensive ( Playerunknown’s battleground and GTA 5 ), they both ran really well and this weekend I’ll try to push even more frames for an even better experience.

So yeah, like dartarian1 said check my thread.


#9

Being honest, I would recommend to read through the decisions’ taken in the development process. I was not involved.
But I think you are too much focused on your own (gaming) situation. Others pointed out good reasons for the fanless design and I am not sure why you discard them. (There are other threads Gen 2 etc where this is discussed as well).
IMHO, a 2in1 computer should never be designed especially for gaming because it makes the device unattractive for other use cases like light (non-graphic) mobile working. Maybe a company with a broad range of 2in1s can afford to design a Gamer 2in1.
But I still don’t get the reason to buy such a computer. (2in1 plus eGPU plus dock) It is too expensive IMHO. It would be better to buy a desktop computer for that premium you have to pay for it.


#10

Forgive my limited hardware knowledge, but I don’t think it’s as simple as:

You have to have a way to cool the device at lower loads otherwise even doing smaller/less intensive tasks would build up heat and trigger the fans. The V has a heat sink to accomplish this, but I don’t think it’s a small component. I would guess it would noticeably increase the size/weight of the device to include both a heat sink and a fan, and weight is already one of the complaints people have with the V. Not to mention the added complexity of having to work out the firmware to manage all of this, and even so, as @inffy mentioned, there will inevitably be times when the fans kick on when they aren’t supposed too.


#11

It is actually super cheap if you kind of do it yourself.
You can get adapter for 50$ (no case).
Then you need desktop PSU which are also very cheap like 50$.
And then some second hand graphics card like for instance GTX 760 Ti which is 100$
So all in all 200$.

So I would say this is very affordable if you don’t go main stream.
Acer has the whole package for 300$ with very slim laptop graphics card.
I think this would become a norm very fast although we are not there yet so most people are skeptic and kind of thrown off when they look at Razer and Assus super expensive offering.

Someone said that you can’t have a fan and then expect to be able to control it.
If that is the case then that is meaningful explanation to my question.

The other proposed reason would be adding to the weight.
OK but I beleive that Eve V community accepts a bit more weight for greater good.

Not enough space for both the sink and fan also seams reasonable.
But then again look at Acer. They are putting graphics card and dual liquid cooling pipe.
So I would say it comes down to a design.


#12

The Acer tablet costs as much as my V + GTX 1070 combo…


#13

I get your point. Nonetheless you can get a decent gaming desktop computer for 650 EUR plus monitor 300 EUR - so you are at about 1000 EUR - getting a rather simple tablet maybe 500 EUR (I have no clue what they cost at the moment) - so you are roughly at 1500 EUR. Good gaming plus mobility.
Buying an Eve V for 1000 EUR (m3) plus your simple eGPU variant you are at about 1200 EUR - then you miss a larger screen and your CPU and GPU power is really not good compared to the desktop solution. - and the SSD is smaller and maybe more.
For my use cases - priority mostly light working and some statistical computing - your solution is too expensive and would not include things I like (e.g. 24’ monitor).

PS: Rethinking my argument, it might be that it comes down to personal preferences and I am still a stationary guy that needs some added mobility but - at least at home - I can not think that a 2in1 can replace a desktop computer. (Technically, it can of course but is really desirable to have all the other things such as additional storage, Blu-ray writer external to a case and only connected to a dock? It feels strange)


#14

How do I get a simple egpu solution on top of V for 200€? I thought its more expansive.


#15

Something like this I guess.


#16

Your video example is a mini-PCIe, not Thunderbolt 3 (and Thunderbolt 3 is significantly faster than mini PCIe).

The TB3 boards are fairly hard to come by the last I looked into it. Even when folks do put together a DIY Thunderbolt 3 eGPU they seem to be ripping the thunderbolt controller boards and other hardware out of existing commercial eGPUs and then building on top of that (or such is what I’ve seen on https://egpu.io/forums/).


#17

Its all about perception! FAN OR without FAN.

Few perceptions…

  1. We wanted to have MOBILE device that is Slim, Trim, Mean & that Works.
  2. We wanted a device that does not produce heat and makes noises, and worry about FAN stopping.
  3. We wanted a device that does not have holes everywhere to facilitate the hot air circulation.
  4. We wanted a device that does most of the world user normally do, login, surf, video, music, documents, notes, emails, images, and as a paper stone (if too many papers on the desk) :-), but not a device to build for hardcore games, servers, heavy development works, etc. which requires FANS to do their job as a pacifier to the components.
  5. We wanted to balance the weight of the device when in mobile and don’t want to live our life as we lived early with 3kg+

So if at all we wanted to play games and keep asking about better eGPU, we wold have not decide to built this in first place as we have many other companies prodcuing them already.