Discussion about the netiquette


#1

Hello, folks! :slight_smile:

[details=First of all a disclaimer ;)]This is supposed to be a friendly reminder to each and everyone here and can be taken as a guide of how to communicate with others (and can also be ignored, of course :wink: ). I’m in no way an official team member, but am personally starting to be rather concerned about some developments in the community regarding communication and how people interact.

Furthermore this is not supposed to be directed to specific people, but should be seen as a general sentiment and is a very subjective and personal view! For a TL;DR just check the bold text [/details]

As mentioned in the disclaimer I’m starting to feel resentments and anger between and towards some members in our community that, in my opinion, are unjustified and unnecessary. I might not have been here very long, but I like this forum very much and that is especially because of the general lack of trolls and bad manners and that every single person here is not trying to insult people or even just to annoy them. And I say this with complete conviction!

That’s why I wanted to express my views. The reason for making this a topic on its own, is, that I also don’t want this to be off-topic, that people can further discuss their problems and opinions here and (maybe as the least significant point) this is just very important to me!

I want to start with addressing that this community imo has a strong feeling of connection. It doesn’t matter what we think specifically, but as I see it, we all beliEVE in the company (which by now is nearly more a true community project than a company) and the idea of developing products together that are superior to what’s out there yet :slight_smile:
Now, of course, if you develop a product together, worlds will collide. This is not your generic company in which a small team develops ideas and one CEO decides what is best for the shareholders. Here we have hundreds of people with vastly different backgrounds coming together, giving input and voting on things. And every opinion is important. But not everything can be done.

Therefore I’d like to start with respect towards one another opinions and views. You can’t like everybody and all the people, that had to get along with new persons (may it be due to studying in a different city or due to work, etc.), will know this already, but you can get along and be nice even towards persons you don’t like. And, if you had the chance to dig deeper and actually befriended some of the guys you didn’t like in the beginning, you also know that generally nobody tries to insult people. The main reason for feeling insulted imo is that people happen to misunderstand others. Even more so, if you’re in an English forum in which English isn’t the mother tongue of a very large majority.

So, please. If you feel insulted, first think, if the person really wants to insult you or was just a bit unlucky with his/her wording. Give the benefit of a doubt as you would like it, too.

You can also ask (in the forum or privately) how it was meant or maybe ask the person to rephrase and explain why. I’m sure most of the time you’ll hear that it was a misunderstanding.

My second point will imply that someone actually just tries to be a troll. Now imagine what will happen, if you feed the troll. Was it ever necessary in the history of the internet (or even your own life) to artificially ignite an argument? Is there any gain in it?

Do not feed the trolls. If someone is resistant to kind remarks, that his statement is not appropriate, then just flag the post and leave it be. There is no reason to go further.

As a third point I want to get a little bit on the topic of arguing with others and how to do it right and productively. We’re called homo politicus for a reason. We are a communicating species. And as mentioned already things can get quite heated as several wars in history have shown :wink: But I think that we can all agree on the basic human rights and that the V is what it is, because we accepted decisions of others and not because one person developed it on his own. I’ll also imply that we all want to increase our knowledge and that a huge part of it is, in fact, thanks to other people!

So, if you’re talking to others, read their argument, try to understand it and comment directly to it. Don’t just write “wrong” or belittle it. Give facts, elaborate and invite further discussion

If you don’t understand something, then ask for further explanation

If you misunderstand something, then apologize and explain why

If you think that someone misunderstood you, then explain it to the other person

Not every argument against you is an attack. Actually, most of them aren’t!

And last (at least for now):
Please, think about what you write and how it might sound to others before posting it.

Your opinion matters. Like everyone else’s does. Don’t shove it down people’s throat. It’s enough, if you write it, where it is appropriate. There is no reason to express it in every single thread and there is especially no reason to hijack other threads and let them drift off-topic.

So, before uploading it, contemplate, if it really adds value to the discussion - and while you’re at it check for typos and ambiguous wording :stuck_out_tongue:

If you’re posting something, then take a second and think, if it is off-topic. Maybe it’s better to leave it be, kindly remind others and/or ask moderators with @Team to move the conversation. Or just create a topic on your own :slight_smile:

Before you start a new topic or ask a question search for it first though :wink:

I am pretty sure that this isn’t everything that can be done and I want to invite you to read the guidelines (again :P) (https://eve.community/guidelines) and use the comments to add your ideas and opinions about this whole topic and how this community can get better. I feel sad, if people don’t participate in the forum, because they feel offended or insulted. This is not the kind of thing that should happen with the spirit of this community that I’ve grown to like so much. We’re all part of something here! So, let’s get together and discuss what we can improve in the way we’re behaving and acting towards each other to make the whole forum a nicer and even more efficient place to be! If we name some good ideas, then I’m sure that our awesome @Team will implement them!

Cheers everybody and thanks for your time :slight_smile:

PS: I’ll try to update this post and follow the discussion that might emerge closely to give a structured layout :slight_smile: and sorry for the long text :upside_down:

Thanks, @Tirigon


Flagging transparency
Community Digest 02.06
New and updated guidelines
Why are you so passive in the community?
#2

Please someone pin this.


#3

Well put.

I’ve noticed a bit of a decline in the past month or so - I suspect they are just growth pains, and things will settle down, but this is an important reminder to not hide behind the anonymity of a user account. We are not anonymous - we are all part of a larger team and need to work together, and if that means setting out some guidelines, then so be it. We have so many different backgrounds - culturally, economically, politically, etc. I, for one, am always amazed at how different we all are, yet we helped to create this amazing device!


#4

I think it’s important that as the V reaches more and more customers over the next few months, and more and more people join the community posting queries regarding the device, that people are conscientious with the way in which they answer. I think we’ve all noticed already that some community members come across slightly aggressive/curt in their answers, and this will only make people less likely to ask questions and it won’t take long for this group to gain the same negative reputation as other communities, like OP


#5

@Team what about putting this on the guidelines? :slight_smile:


#6

Nice guideline, really should be permanently pinned.

Maybe you can add 2 more bold aspects:
Before you write a post, use the search function.
Brefore you write a post, think whether the world really has to read this.

(I often wrote something in draft and finally deleted it because I felt it to be of no real value; more should do this I think ;))


#7

Aawww… you’re taking the fun out of it, man…
:wink:


#8

Good luck, I admire the optimism :slight_smile:


#9

One way to avoid taking threads off-topic and still say the things you want to say, is to send a private message to someone instead of replying to their post.

Example 1:
A: "This is a thread about cookies."
B: "Cookies are awesome!"
C: "I love cookies, but not ones with green icing. I tried those and they sucked!"
D: "Not all green icing is the same though, you should try Icing Brand X, it’s really good."
C: "Oh, thanks for the tip, I guess I’ll try that some time."
E: “It’s not as good as Icing Brand Y though. I always felt Icing Brand X is too sweet.”
…this is now a thread about icing.

Example 2:
A: "This is a thread about cookies."
B: "Cookies are awesome!"
C: "I love cookies, but not ones with green icing. I tried those and they sucked!"
D in private message to C: "Hey, i saw your post in the cookie thread. Did you know that not all green icing is the same? Perhaps you could try Icing Brand X, it’s really good."
C in private message to D: "Oh, thanks for the tip, I guess I’ll try that some time."
E in main thread: “Yay! I love cookies!”
…this is now still a thread about cookies, and D still got to give their tip to C.

Should the discussion about icing in private messages turn into something bigger, C and D could start a new thread to ask other people for their ideas on icing.


#10

Just my 2¢. Language in the forum threats is in English but not everyone is at the same level of fluency either writing or reading. Depending on how they got to learn it as a native, second language, as business tool, by osmossis… And their culture can greatly influence how they value/interpret certain words over others.


#11

Very worthy realism. In fact do not undervalue this fact.
I remember after coming back from a British holiday (working on a farm) I was sent out of the classroom by my high-school English teacher because of ‘dirty and foul language’. At first I was sure that he was attacked by a temporarily intellect blocking virus or something like that, but after all he was right: I knew the whole word, but understood only half of its meaning.


#12

Great sentence! (20)


#13

I’m new to this whole forum thing, I don’t use Reddit a lot and I don’t spend much of my time on boards like this and I’m looking for how to be a better user!

Thanks y’all!


#14

I would start by urging you to first read the guidelines: https://eve.community/guidelines. I am working on updating them, but they are still a good starting point.
Then you should try the discobot user tutorial that you can start by bookmarking the Welcome message you’ve received.
But the most important is to just read around. Look at what people are saying, and how they are saying it. See how the responses are when they say things the way they do. Like I’ve said a few times: reading can get you far.


#15

That’s the first and most important step to become a better user.

As @nawthor already mentioned look if the question/topic you have has already been discussed.
I know that it is some work to do so but starting a new thread about some theme already discussed is such a pain in the a… for those who already answered questions and put some work and time in it to give a real valuable answer.

You will experience the same after you’ve been here for a while.

I write this because I saw you starting some new threads and I really like that you ask how to act better.


#16

Yeah! I don’t wanna be a pain in the butt, I just wanna help make cool stuff :slight_smile:


#17

Hello, I’m new here, but am a bit familiar with forums and stuff.
I really think this is a really good (beginning?) guideline for a community, I’ve seen some good forums turn bad because there are no rules.
Please keep Eve’s forums as clean as the keyboard cover! xD (That is, a new, straight-from-factory keyboard)


#18

@robonxt There are already official guidelines here https://eve.community/guidelines

And the Community Manager Trinity is right now working on them afaik :smiley:


#19

Uh, yeah, I saw that AFTER I posted… RIP eyes