Concept: The world's first crowd-designed 10-inch tablet: the Eve V Air!


#126

Round two: We are down to the final two contenders. What sort of operating system configuration would you prefer on this 10-inch Core M tablet?

  • Dual-boot: Windows and Android
  • Just Windows

0 voters


#127

What name do you think this 10-inch Core M tablet should have?

Please answer replying directly to this post by hitting the twisted arrow…
…in the lower right-hand corner.


#128

Just as an FYI, you can find all the most relevant polls by visiting post #3 in this thread:


#130

As a quick comparison, the Onda V919 3G Core M (again, this product failed because Onda, as a company, is notorious for selling defective and damaged tablets) was able to achieve the following specifications. In particular, it has approximately a 30Wh battery (3.7V-3.8V * 8000 mAh) and it weighs 1.29 pounds (583 g). With a little thought put into the engineering while using a larger 40Wh battery, this should keep the Eve V Air around 1.4 pounds (635 g).

Source:


#131

I knew all that, but actually thanks for putting it all in one post. Was interesting to read over it again :slight_smile:

But I didn’t want to talk about, which one will be better (which is as you mentioned x86, of course), but rather wanted to point out that the consumer could have many tablets with windows 10 by the end of this year, which could be problematic for us since the general population didn’t even understand why Windows RT couldn’t update to Windows 10. So, they won’t get the difference between ARM and x86, I fear.


#132

Between this and a smartphone, we would be in a much better position releasing a tablet. The smartphone market is over-saturated with virtually dozens of models from the dozens of manufacturers on the market which equates to hundreds of smartphones on the market today. The smartphone market is also driven more by brand recognition where product differentiation (i.e. a product with a compelling feature set, regardless of how extensive it is) is far less a factor in the consumer’s buying process.

The tablet market is far less saturated and Windows tablets have the most positive future ahead. While overall tablet sales are going down, Windows tablet sales are increasing at stratospheric rates. iPad owners in particular are underwhelmed by the iPad’s lack of innovation, and are not upgrading anymore. Many are moving to Windows tablets since they are far more flexible and capable than the iPad and the iOS ecosystem. Android is also projected to lose sales as the years progress. Therefore, it would be advantageous to enter the market with a compelling product that formalizes a product category (i.e. 10-inch Core M Windows tablet) in the Windows tablet sector, especially when the current market players (e.g. Samsung and its Galaxy Book 10) are releasing few, lackluster products.


#133

It is not about the scaling, that’s probably fine in Windows, it is about apps. I am in no way saying that iPad apps are perfect, in fact they could benefit from more features from equivalent desktop apps, but in no way is using Desktop apps a viable alternative on such a small device. And here is where Windows unfortunately still lacks. Yeah, you showed me some alternative apps but these can’t really compete in direct comparisons. We have phone apps and desktop programmes, and a combination of both features are needed on a tablet imo. Just using good old Windows programmes is not a viable solution in the long run. On the V, that is fine, because it is to a very large part a laptop as well. On a 10" not so much, in my opinion.

Also I am not sure why having a core M would drastically change the device. Therefore I think the Surface 3 is quite comparable, and that was not nearly as popular as the Surface Pro series.


#134

Instead of comparing to Chinese branded, best to look at the Samsung tabpro S. I know the Samsung is 12 inch but if you can downsize to 10, would be pretty sweet.


#135

Have you seen the Samsung Galaxy Book 10, which is supposed to be coming in May? The Eve V Air is meant to be a superior alternative to the Galaxy Book 10, with better performance and features. I will throw up a specification comparison sheet so you can see how much better the Eve V Air is than either the Galaxy Book 10 or the Galaxy TabPro S.


#136

I would say the appeal of a 10-inch Core M tablet all depends on perspective, then. Many users are abandoning Android and iOS because these platforms lack the features of traditional Windows desktop programs and newer Universal Windows Platform apps. Argurably, in many respects, the app alternatives new to the Windows Store in more recent years are equal or superior to the iOS and Android ones. For example: Drawboard versus iAnnotate; FL Studio Mobile versus GarageBand; PowerDirector Mobile versus iMovie; Windows 10 Mail app versus iOS Mail App; Skype versus FaceTime. The added advantage of Windows is you can use traditional programs and in Creators Update, the vastly improved DPI scaling combined with the built-in virtual touchpad (not absolutely necessary now that scaling is working) make it easy to use these superior desktop applications as well. As to what people think of Windows tablets versus other tablets, the year-over-year tablet sales numbers I posted above of 2015 and 2016 speak for themselves. As for the Surface 3, it is not a matter of size but performance. I can cite numerous threads on TabletPCReview where users have opined about the Surface 3’s inferior performance, wishing it was somehow better, ultimately resulting in them opting for a larger 12-inch Core M Windows tablet solely on the basis of performance.


#137

To you as a potential buyer, what would be the biggest appeal to purchase this 10-inch Core M tablet over the Surface 3 and the upcoming Galaxy Book 10?

  • Performance
  • Thunderbolt 3
  • Number of USB ports
  • Higher resolution display
  • Larger battery capacity

0 voters


#138

Of course it all depends on perspective. However, in no way can third party clients compete with original clients when it comes to the integrity of a platform. Yes, some of them might even be better than first party apps, but the large amount still can’t compete. FL Studio Mobile is not superior to Garageband, and while FL Studio is (in an other version) available on the iPad as well as Cubasis and Garageband, users have a lot more options. Same goes for PowerDirector Mobile. Outlook for iPad and Android is pretty incredible and again you have choices: iCloud Mail, Outlook, Gmail Clients! .
Skype is just the same: On Android you have Skype, Hangouts and other apps, and on the iPad all of that and FaceTime. A desktop app on a 10" device that is mostly used by touch no matter the scaling will be a worse experience than an app that was build from the ground up for that input.
Again, the app situation on Windows is definitely worse than on iOS and Android, there is no denying that.

The statistics only show that people believe Microsoft will finally be able to successfully catch-up at least a little bit. Also the tablet category with Windows also includes the SurfacePro line and other 2-1s with bigger displays.

Yeah maybe performance was a slight issue with the Surface 3, but I was just as often cited that Windows on a tablet of that size is still far from perfect. UWA are still very limited.


#139

The first-party versus third-party argument has been debunked many times. While it can be generally the case, it is not as clear cut as you make it out to be. FL Studio Mobile is far more popular than you may realize. It actually comes for free with the free version of the FL Studio desktop application.

What’s more is FL Studio is the most widely downloaded and installed DAW on the planet nearing 30,000 installs per day, totalling to over 10,000,000 installs per year. Unlike GarageBand that comes preinstalled, FL Studio has real users who are choosing to install it. GarageBand doesn’t even come close to the size and scope of FL Studio’s real user base.

The iOS mail clients have made great strides, but they still fail to reach the rich featuresets of these Windows apps and programs of mail client offerings:
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.windowscentral.com/best-email-apps-windows-10

Since Hangouts is also available on Windows with more features, I don’t consider the iOS app on par quite yet. Once FaceTime can allow group video chatting, OS screen sharing, and multi-platform support, I will consider it on par with Skype.

I will not deny the fact that the Windows Store is still behind, but that gap has been narrowing considerably within the last few years. Whereas there is now approximately 700,000 Windows Store apps, there only use to be approximately 100,000 around five years ago. By any stretch, this level of percentage growth is much higher than the iOS App Store.

You neglected to note that the current projections and the current sales I cited show the number of Windows tablets sold will be equal to that of iOS tablets by 2020. This year alone, while the number of iPads sold decreased again by about 20%, the number of Windows tablets increased by 20%. This isn’t a slight change or, in your own words “finally be[ing] able to successfully catch-up at least a little bit.” This is a textbook example of a mass market migration.

You appear to be disregarding your initial comment about scaling:

Scaling now is no longer grainy or dysfunctional in Creators Update. Unless you are speaking of antiquated desktop programs from before 2000, traditional desktop programs now respond very well to scaling. If you need a button a certain size to facilitate in pressing it with your finger, simply increase the scaling to suit.

And if there is a program that was poorly written for DPI scaling (these are usually programs from over 15 years ago, where they used magic numbers to hard define the DPI scaling), use the built-in virtual touchpad. The virtual touchpad is very fast and sleek, and in no way unwieldy. Either way, in exchange, the amount of functionality in a traditional desktop program versus the best apps is more than worth it.

“Slight” is an understatement: the Surface 3 had under half the single-core performance of the best Core M product at the time. Its multi-core performance was a fair deal behind as well, which is now well under half the multi-core performance of current generation Core M.


#140

The first ones should be out by June - December with some level of quantity in delivery. I am assuming a year long gestation for the next generation machine, and that being, by the time beta testing comes along, these should be readily available by then and would put a next generation machine on the bleeding edge, even though the power source will not be. The swelling or exploding issues is why the solid state batteries came into existence, they don’t have that characteristic. The only barrier right now is price, they are being sold to power larger devices at the moment and haven’t yet scaled down to devices that would power a laptop, they are either really small (thin strip batteries to use for very small applications) or huge batteries (the first market is cars), but the mid size hasn’t been sold yet, but it is only a matter of time and not much at this point.

There are companies selling these commercially right now, but not yet in large quantities at this moment. But that will change rather quickly, I suspect Energizer or Duracell will be one of the early adopters and I suspect Samsung will be an early adopter to get around the fiasco they had with the Samsung 7.


#141

This is fantastic to hear! Thank you for specifying more clearly what kind of battery technology you were looking at. I found a recent research study just from this year that corroborates this. Here are the key sentences to note:

“When DOS = 100%, the safety of ALIB is exactly the same as that of LIB; when DOS = 0%, ALIB reaches the ultimate safety. We investigated two types of LIB-AIM and three types of ALIB-AIM. Surprisingly, all the ALIBs exhibit one or two exothermic peaks above 250 °C with 20-30% of DOS.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28001045/

Incredibly, this means an all-solid-state lithium-ion battery is only 20-30% as likely to experience safety issues. That is to say, if 10 out of 1000 lithium-ion batteries swell or explode, only 2 or 3 all-solid-state batteries out of 1000 swell or explode.

Mind you, this is also at unrealistic, extremely high temperatures (above 250 °C) which is well beyond the temperatures you would ever see in a mobile device like a tablet. The real-world safety levels should be even better and–dare I say–perfectly safe in these all-solid-state lithium-ion batteries!

An all-solid-state lithium-ion battery would be more power dense. It would be the perfect candidate for bringing down the battery’s weight contribution in this 10-inch Core M tablet. This would make for an even lighter, sleeker device overall:

“Sakamoto adds that ‘Lithium metal anodes exhibit a significant increase in capacity compared to state-of-the-art graphite anodes. This could translate into about a 100 percent increase in energy density compared to [conventional] Li-ion technology.’”

They are also longer lasting, meaning they do not lose much of their full capacity as quickly as two to three years like many normal lithium-ion batteries can do:

I hope they soon work out the rest of the problems behind the cost-prohibitive nature of manufacturing these all-solid-state lithium-ion batteries. This would be next step in bringing high performance down to devices at 10 inches and under.


#142

you can theoretically use it for some light gaming… for now, the best advice on passively cooled gaming devices I can give you is forget it! :wink:

Both small and powerful tends to be a bit tricky. A small gaming laptop (as in 13,3") is possible, but this would be an entirely different device compared to the tablet discussed here. :wink:
In the end of course it depends on the games you intend to play, but as you are asking for a “powerful gaming laptop”… :thinking:


#143

The keyword here is light gaming. If you are okay with playing eSport titles and older AAA titles at medium or low settings at 720p and emulated GameCube games at 720p, a Core M can actually handle it all quite well. A 10-inch Core M tablet would fare a lot better than something like the little GPD Win with Intel Atom:


#144

I’m well aware of the capabilities of Core M processors. Again, depending on the age 720p might be a bit tricky even for older AAA titles (eg. TESV: Skyrim), unless of course you are comfortable with framerates way below 60 fps. :wink:

Though as he was asking for a

light gaming capability may be missing the point. :wink:

Anyways, if we are talking about a serious gaming device, it’s imho OT here.


#145

Agreed on that count. @AaronTechie would be better off with something from Razer or Alienware since he is after a powerful, sub-14-inch gaming ultrabook. Playing with these settings, though, you can get 60 frames per second for the categories I mentioned. In my case, I can often get a fluid and consistent 60 fps at 720p and low to medium settings for those categories on my Surface Pro 4 m3. As to his postings, I was led to believe he was looking for both a 10-inch Core M tablet and a small and powerful laptop since he appears to be posting about both. Maybe he wants both? :slight_smile:


#146

Me I rather understood his desire as those two devices being the same. :thinking: :wink:

edit: Ahhrghh!!! I’ve continued on the OT thing…:confounded:

@mulenga starts to engage in self-flagellation