Not that bad …
Not that bad …
Wasn’t topline 3200CAD?
Top Canadian (13.5" only) is CA$3,850, one I’m testing (15") is US$3,300 so about CA$4,500.
Do you know what ARK on the i7 processor is? I am hoping the difference in the PassMark scores is not too much from my current setup. Thank by the way!
The difference in processor class, and both being appropriately cooled, does mean that the performance gap between i7 SP17s and i7 Vs is much bigger than between their i5 counterparts.
Note that the i7 models of the Surface Pro are not passively cooled and will feature Microsoft’s signature Surface fan noise!
And in case someone was left wondering about the remaining models: Both i3 Vs and i3 SP17s come equipped with the Intel Core m3-7Y30. But ours has double the RAM so we still kick their ass
I love the descriptions for how people will benefit from each CPU choice, now just compare the i7 as well so I don’t feel like I’ve spent too much money
Super easy to understand and real world explanation.
Now just for completeness sake… how about expanding your explanation with i5 vs. i7
I read the specs on benchmark sites but… yeah.
Any chance we could have this on the flash sale shop when it opens? I think it will be real useful for the customers there, especially considering the m3 and i5 model have quite a large gap between them in price.
Not sure we can add all of it (and sadly, years of computer retail experience have taught me that most people wouldn’t care anyway and buy on price rather than spec).
That said, I can at least turn it into an easier to read post that people who care to research their purchases can find or be directed to. Before that, though, we need to get the complete story. Luckily, I’ll be typing most of the missing part already anyway, as per @Cluskey_Smith’s and @erzketzer’s requests. Sorry for the wait guys, benefits of the i7 will follow after I finally have breakfast
More like: “you are welcome that I write up all this information about parts from another manufacturer. Information that is somewhere out there in the interwebs, but just not as readable”.
Sooo. thank you
Take your time. 1. Breakfast is said to be the most important meal of the day 2. As long as it is before December the 4th all is good with me
Finally done with breakfast – if you can still call it that at 4:30pm. Time for i5 vs. i7!
In a way, the same benefits apply here, as in the case with the m3 vs. i5:
In gaming the i7 may have a slight performance advantage again, of up to 11%. That may allow for some extra eye-candy in the games that would run well on an i5, but it likely won’t make a game that runs badly on an i5 suddenly run like a charm. Entry-level gaming and eSports games is still the limit. In content creation like photo and video editing, the i7 will see up to 13% better performance from the CPU alone, and the same with very heavy Excel sheets.
All i7 models come with 16GB of RAM, which will appeal to people who multi-task a lot, people whose workflow involves tens of Chrome tabs. It’s also beneficial for users of content creation software, or people who regularly modify huge files.
Finally, the 512GB/1TB capacity will appeal to those who need more than 256GB/512GB!
All in all, it is important to note that all three models come with a great CPU from Intel. There is no difference in component quality or reliability between the three different chips, and all three can be used for the same purposes. Some CPUs just execute those purposes with some extra speed.
Intel introduced the i3/i5/i7 nomenclature as a good/better/best indicator. That goes per class of device, so you have to take that into account in your comparison: The i7-7Y75, i7-8650U, i7-7920HQ, i7-8700K are all the best in their class. Just that one’s more suitable for thin-and-light fanless 2-in-1 devices, the others are more suitable for thin-and-light laptops, performance laptops, and enthusiast desktop PCs. A Desktop Core i3 may wipe the floor with a thin-and-light i7, because they are not playing by the same rules.
Within the device category we’re currently working, the i7-7Y75 is faster than the i5-7Y54 is faster than the m3-7Y30. But they still follow the good/better/best principle, so even the m3 model may be the slowest of its kind, it’s still a good CPU.
When the Y-class was first introduced in Intel’s 5th generation ‘Broadwell’ processor range, there was only one option: the ‘Core m’. In the 6th generation ‘Skylake’ this was extended to Core m3/m5/m7. It did help to set them apart from the other offerings, but at the same time it made them the only CPU category to have its own letter. Why weren’t desktop parts d3/d5/d7, or high-end-desktop parts x3/x5/x7? From that perspective it makes sense that Intel switched them to just be i3/i5/i7 like the rest: good/better/best in their class. …except they didn’t. The m3 remained m3, and I couldn’t tell you why.
Having these CPUs named i3(or m3)/i5/i7 wouldn’t be such an issue if every thin-and-light fanless 2-in-1 device used Y-class processors like Intel had envisioned. Comparisons are harder when manufacturers take the CPUs out of their comfort zones: Microsoft put more powerful Ultrabook-CPUs in their tablet, and some manufacturers put desktop parts in their gaming notebooks. Performance rises, but battery life suffers and the cooling solution needs to be beefed up to compensate for the increased heat generation.
And finally: Why do we still have slow computers? Because Intel also creates CPUs aimed at providing the bare necessities at the lowest price: Atom, Celeron and Pentium processors. I once asked an Intel rep “so if i3 is good, and Pentium is below i3, what does that make Pentium, or even Celeron?” She didn’t even hesitate before she answered “cheap.” I urge each and every one of you: Please, never buy an Atom, Celeron or Pentium for yourself or your loved ones. You’re worth more than that
I am curious as to whether the Y series processor in the V can handle virtual machines such as VMWare. I occasionally spin up 1-2 VMs for work.
Me thinks there will be lots of various testings and reporting back from new V owners soon.
Yes. I may take m3… Actually struggle either m3 or i5…
It definitely should be able to (at least the i5 and i7 versions). The Y label means that the processor can reach a much lower clock speed than the U series, and thus use much less power. As far as I know, it’s basically the same processor, just with different TDP limits and a much broader clock range (the Y series has a higher clock speed than the U series). When you’re looking up benchmarks for the Y processors, typically they are performed at the lower 4.5W TDP - the V will ship with 7W TDP.
I believe (and I think this is the general consensus in the community) that the i7 V should be able to perform very similarly to the i7 Surface Pro 4 (the V has excellent cooling, the Surface had very bad thermal throttling) which is the device it was originally designed to compete with. Same with the i5 Surface Pro 4. Also, I believe the m3 is the same as is in the Surface, so it should perform just as well (just with double the ram ).
My SP4 runs VMWare fine, but I only ever use 1 VM at a time on my laptop. Since there are only 2 physical cores (4 threads), it may not work super well for more than 1 VM. Although I assume you know what resources your VMs need, so you can determine whether or not the thread count/RAM is enough for your purposes.
Just curious, I want to know whether it would sustain 13W for gaming with an eGPU or other intensive scenarios.
Fair enough, this won’t be covered under warranty, but some people like to live life on the edge.
I honestly think that if you had a fan blowing on the back of the V (even something like this), it would make a big difference in cooling, and would probably handle 13W just fine. It would be good to keep a silent but very good fan behind the V to use for gaming (when connected to an eGPU or docked), and it will probably perform a lot better than if passively cooled. Plus, you can have a fan pointed at yourself for when the match gets intense!
@AntonyTerence: The test results from our prototype testers suggest that the CPU will throttle to stay within its Intel-imposed power limits before ever reaching a point where thermal throttling is an issue. This also means that whatever TDP you set, the CPU will never continuously run at its maximum Turbo Boost frequency, because Intel didn’t design it to: burst performance is the Y-class CPU’s forté. So I’d define ‘it can handle up to 13W’ as ‘it will perform well enough to not lead to thermal throttling up to 13W’.
As mentioned already, the device is not designed to generate more than 7W of thermal energy from its CPU, so this cooling solution should not be an issue unless you decide to experiment, and experimenting is always at your own risk.
@Jamil_Stafford: Adding a fan to the outside will do little as the mostly smooth aluminium surface makes for a relatively bad heat sink. The main challenge is transferring the heat away from the CPU, a job that is being handled by the heat pipe. Since this heat pipe is a closed system, even a fan inside the device would do little to improve cooling. Since the existing cooling solution is already more than adequate to not be a limiting factor for the CPU, any efforts to improve the cooling system will not improve CPU performance…
That’s an impressive feat indeed. Can’t wait for my V to arrive. If only I had an affordable eGPU solution to go with it (cough, Donald Dock, cough)…
Even after we removed almost half of the original cooler design, it still performed better than what we need. So yes, super impressive work by our cooling engineers!
Don’t get too carried away and forget about Intel’s hard-coded power limits, though. It won’t thermal throttle, but it will ‘throttle as intended’ based on power draw.
Note that it’s not a bad thing; it simply means that you’re able to use every drop of performance your CPU is capable of with the V. The only reason it’s not a problem for many other devices with a Y-CPU… is because they thermal throttle before they ever get that far