[B] Palm rejection / hover distance


#1

The problem is a mix of hover distance and palm rejection:

If you put your pen within hover distance and place your hand on the screen, everything is fine and works OK till you lift the pen a tiny bit too high for a split second. Palm rejection is reset after 1 sec after lifting the pen above hover distance even when returning within hover distance instantly. Palm rejection is only re-enabled after the pen touches the screen.

Needed software fix #1: Always disable touch input while the pen is within hover distance
See edit below!

Bigger problem: sometimes the pen isn’t recognized for a hundredth of a second even while within hover distance causing your hand zooming in and out like mad while not expecting it.

Needed software fix #2: Random bug: Pen is sometimes not recognized for a very short time

Edit: (Post from down below, editing it in here to summarize this post better):

Conclusion: software fix #1: touch panel driver should differentiate between fingers and palm and ignore the palm when detected.


[Summary] Software Improvements Progress (keep updating)
#2

I’m going to be using my V for lots of note-taking and for drawing illustrations for clients during discussions. I need the experience to work smoothly. I don’t have my V yet to verify the bugs, but I’m voting for this in hopes that these can be corrected quickly!


#3

After reading my post once again, I noticed, that fix #1 will also eliminate the need for fix #2. Even if the pen is not recognized for a slit second, palm rejection would instantly be restored and nothing would happen. Then there would be plenty of time to fix #2 without any pressure.


#4

While I agree with the problem you’ve described I don’t think that the solution is that simple.
Drawboard PDF disables every hand input alftrer the recognition of the pen for almost 2 seconds. That should prevent the issue but it doesn’t so there Mist be a bigger problem with the pen.
My biggest problem and I think it’s also related to the hoover distance and palm rejection in any way is that after a while of writing the pen input doesn’t work for a few seconds and so many missibg letters occur.
Thank you for opening this thread. I hope we can fix all of the pen related issued soon.
I’ve tried to do my work for university on the V but honestly I will go back to pen and paper today since I spend more time on correcting stuff than actually do my work.


#5

What i’d like is that one of the buttons, let say the “eraser” will just toggle “FULLY IGNORE PALM” on and off.

Although, i think this should be fixed by microsoft: in the “actions menu” (the one on the right, not sure that’s the correct name) there should be the said toggle. This toggle should switch back to “normal rejection” on computer restart (in case the stylus breaks by any change).

This would be my take on it.


#6

I’ve been using an SP3 for a good while as my notebook for maths and physics, and I notice that the pen activation distance(when the marker from the pen appears on the screen) is very low on the V, about 1-2mm, while on the SP3 it’s about 10mm.

In my opinion an increase in the pen activation distance would go a long way to solve issues and make the V a device that’s capable of taking pen notes on. So far, it’s not and I’m still using my SP3.


#7

Did someone try the gloves posted on the other thread ?


#8

I use mine for note taking and have no problems at all (besides bad hand writing).


#9

I don’t know if you can make it out from my pic, but for me the pen activation distance seems to be just over 10 mm

(UK LB batch 1 M3 and I’ve not downloaded any drivers yet, tho it may have been done for me)


#10

Try it on multiple occasions, sometimes it does 10mm, sometimes its much lower.

Also, on the first try (before the screen ever detects the hover) its usually much lower than after the pen been recognized. In my case, at least


#11

True true

It’s activates much higher when my palm is hot resting in the screen. If it is, the open activation distance is next to nothing.

That said , the note talking experience is comparable go the surface 3 I have


#12

I believe the immediate resume on the regular touch functionality can be an issue.
Another issue is the short distance of palm rejection. An inch would be necessary, from my point of view.

I’d like some “software switch” to manually turn back on the normal touch functionality, so that regardless of pen distance you wouldn’t have palm rejection. It could work this way:

  • when the pen gets close, activates palm rejection and notifies the user on the taskbar
  • when the pen gets far, a notification is shown informing that the pen is far away. Palm rejection is kept enabled except for the area of the notification itself, where the user could use a swipe gesture to re-enable touch. The choice of a gesture is intentional, to avoid a palm touching to disable the rejection involuntarily.
  • the app could have a configuration setting to turn on or off this automatic feature

This in my opinion would solve all current problems of palm rejection distance and could work also on other devices as well.

Explanation on which APIs to use and a tiny example would also do: the rest I can develop myself in my spare time and then give it back to Eve for signing and distribution to V owners.


#13

What about a little floating button that (when activated) only allows pen input? That way you could write freely with the pen, and when you want to scroll the page you will just press that button. It is a very simple but quite primitive solution.

I doubt if that may have already been implemented by an app, but I still haven’t found any.


#14

Coincidentally Microsoft has similar (but not exactly the same) problems with the Surface Pro 2017. We should check if the V has the same problem.

Link to Microsoft Surface forum:
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfpro-surfhardware/intermittent-pen-inaccuracy-when-hand-is-on-the/28ef8566-0003-4c68-a964-6c2562423eb0?auth=1

And perhaps MS will be able to share some hints on how our problem can be solved.


[X] Improve Palm/clasp recognition while writing
#15

Kind of annoying bc I expected V to not be marginally better than surface pros


#16

I really really really wish the team takes note this @Team


#17

Today i could use the Acer Switch Alpha 12. The palm rejection is worser than the V or the surface book. V and Surface book are nearly same good/bad…

A friend mentioned a HP 2 in 1 device, which has a perfect palm rejection. But i couldn’t try it for myself.

The palm rejection is not the worsest. I am glad that i can work with the current rejection / hover distance.


#18

Just tried out several things on the Surface and I found out one very interesting bit:
I had a major lapse of thought: Touch input is not deactivated while the pen is hovering nor while the tip is touching the screen (writing). This allows some apps to take advantage of changing settings while drawing.

But:
The MS Surface Pro differentiates the type of touch input:
Count of fingers is recognized and swiping actions (gestures) depend on the number of fingers.
Palm is recognized as palm and so it is ignored.

This is the better approach. This way the different drivers don’t have to interact with each other, it offers more features to come for future usage and it is the same behavior on the Surface Pro.

I will further investigate on this difference.
@Xinjie, could you please discuss this with the supplier

Edit: I tried out the same thing on the V and touch input here is simply deactivated while the pen is in hover distance. This generates the problem that in the moment the pen is out of hover distance, the touch input starts again and generates all sort of problems. Just disabling everything for longer is no good solutions as it makes the device feel sluggy. The better solution is to improve the way the touch panel recognizes fingers and the palm. If this can’t be achieved by software/driver updates, we would need to know this as soon as possible as this is a major selling point.


#21

Has anyone found a good solution to this problem yet? Reason I bought V is mainly for note taking in OneNote. So far, just terrible and totally unusable.

For comparison, I have a Samsung Note 8 phone & also a Samsung Galaxy Tab S3 tablet, and writing experience in both of those is so much better. Out of frustration I tried a Samsung Notebook 9 in a local Best Buy, using stylus from my phone…and it was amazing. Night and day with both the Eve V and Surface Pro 4 (I have both now).

Please tell me there’s a fix! I want to LOVE this machine, and really am pulling for Eve as the little guy fighting against the giants. But, as it is, I literally can’t use the V for what I’d intended. :frowning:

I posted following vid in a different thread, but I’ll post it here too. In vid I use both the V pen and the Surface pen. It’s same experience whether writing/sketching notes, or using ink to text as shown in vid:

Using both V pen and Surface pen on V


#22

@Robert,

What you see there in your video is that sometimes the pen skips. What I mean is when you try to draw a straight line it actually becomes a dotted line. Mine does that too, atleast sometimes. But when its not skipping the writing expirience is great.

But i completely agree with you, this problem or bug whatever you want to call it, should be fixed en palm rejection should be improved.