Are we sweeping support under the carpet?


#1

Continuing the discussion from Eve.community and the Eve support team:

With that kind of approach, the community in general will loose viability of the numerous problems that have occurred during production, shipping and end-users using the product.

I know that raising official support requests for defect resolution is mandatory … but … “removing such topics” is nothing more then censorship … I thought that this community was supposed to be open and transparent?


#2

Honestly, right now this forum is a huge mess imo. Ultimately the basic idea of support should be that people are helped, if you ask me. Doesn’t really matter how.

But right now it feels like everybody is copying every support ticket he’s got and pasting it here on the forum. Anything that I find interesting gets buried in this kind of noise, including the two current projects and that’s not how this is supposed to be at all imo. It’s not like anyone of us users can help with hardware problems and general windows problems aren’t any concern of Eve (despite that they’re actually still handling them). So, we’re ending up everywhere with “oh, this and that happened” right now and the answer is “write the support”. So, what’s the harm in writing the support in the first place and being patient?

If you feel like the community loses anything, then feel free to open a thread with polls for all kinds of stuff, where users can write what problems they have in a sorted manner and others can upvote, if they have them as well. But there is no use in hundreds of threads, if the V has shipped yet or that your screen is broken or what not imo.

This place was really nice and sorted before and full with interesting threads, but right now it’s hard to get myself to look through the topics and that just feels wrong to me.


#3

Let me take off my hat as CM for a minute.

I agree that there should be topics about issues - if e.g. somehow a batch gets super borked up and you can’t plug anything into any port that is something that deserves its own topic and discussion.

However the 257th thread about someone, unfortunately, receiving a V with a crack in the display is nothing like that - if the whole batch has it, it’s a different story.

As @SyrtakiVampir nicely put it - individual support topics that just have to be forwarded to our support anyways are ‘clogging’ up the community and lowering visibility of more interesting topics like e.g.


#4

No. The community is just loosing hundreds of repeating topics about someone whining about his missing abilities to work with windows… and that is good imo.

The main purpose of this community is to develop new devices, not to be a cheap support-engine for the eve-V.


#6

To some point I understand the feeling, nevertheless isn’t it why there are different rooms in the forum?
If one wants to see only the development or the official announcement, it is always possible to select the appropriate room, isn’t it? he can send avoid any thread that he deems uniniteressting at the moment (support/complains/issues/delivereis,…).
to the opposite, if one wants to see everything, he just remains on the main page.


#7

Well different folks different tastes, someone is interested to understand what the issues are and what the volume is, someone not.

We benefit from it, w/o the posts we would not know that the screens seem to crack during transport (but there is no transport damage) - there may be a production flaw.

Or without the posts in the community we would not know, that although drivers improved audio, there may still be a problem with some speakers - as we dont have a reference, people with broken speakers may return the V or accept thats as good as it gets.

Lets have the issues be handled by support primarily, shared in the community if someone thinks it is a good idea to share or to ask for support in the community.
Btw. a lot of issues was fixed in the community already.

Why not rather implement a filter, for the users to select what topics to see in their views?


#8

Can do this in the tracking section at bottom left hand of each thread - just set to “Muted”.

Admittedly will see any new threads - probably want to do that anyway to see if interested. If so keep on default “Tracking” - otherwise change


#9

I think people are going to use the forum for support until they have a baseline expectation of what and when support is available. I still don’t know if I should expect support to be available/responsive over the weekend (in the US), what the SLA would be for support to V’s customers (despite behind behind and that’s understandable), etc. You can also imagine the customer experience when they get a new device that is handicapped or broken in some way and the auto responder is, “Thanks for the inquiry, it might take 5 days to get back to you” when the only expectation that was set with the user was that they have 15 days to decide if they want to keep their product. I’ve given them that feedback already that they might want to nuance the messaging especially int the expectations vacuum that exists.

Also, people posting their issues in the forum as well as to support, provides a good signal to other users to test for the same issue. Given all the trouble people have had, I think there is a different expectation established for what we are expecting with the V vs. something purchased from an established brand. So, I think this is a huge community service.


#12

Can a room default to muted? If so, I’d vote to create a Support Issues room and default that to muted.

Then when I get my V… should I have an issue I can go into Support and see… “Yes we are aware of X and it is being worked on” OR “Nope. No one else has reported this” OR “Yes, and here’s the fix” OR whatever…


#13

That’s fair enough, but my problem is the amount of double posts and posts in which the community can’t help. If there are issues with the cracked screen and people want to know how many cracked screens have been there, then just start a thread in which everybody with a cracked screen can answer a poll to see the pure number of people with the issue. Or maybe split the polls in HEB, LB, Flash Sale (XX/XX/201X or XX.XX.201X).

But it’s useless to start a post with “hey, peeps, my screen is cracked” every time imo. That’s what a support ticket is for. The best thing for Eve to keep it open would be to just give users the possibility to rate the product in the shop or somewhere on the page or in the community imo. But I totally agree with Eve that the community should be (at least mostly) reserved for interesting new products, ideas and things to discuss or with which we can actually help. I honestly want to help people, but it’s frustrating to click through oceans of repeating posts I can’t help with anyways (or honestly don’t want to anymore after it’s been answered en masse).

It’s really not about saying that people don’t have a write to know these things like the frequency of certain issues, I just really agree with the team here that this untidy mess that resulted isn’t the way this community should go.

I as a customer also wouldn’t want to go to a forum to get help instead of getting real customer service and I also never skimp through forums to find out, if a product is good for me or not. I rather read reviews by customers and magazines/sites. I mean, you can still write about your V experience with the cracked screen or issues with the support in the respective category, but all the “hardware issues - what do?” threads feel off to me.


#14

@SyrtakiVampir
I guess if there weren’t so many issues you wouldnt see posts about them and the problem would solve itself. As far as I can tell we can replace the word “bird” anywhere with “beta” and in that world you’re going to have people using the forum for help.


#15

So, the forum experience should be worse for the general public, because some people have issues?
As far as I’ve heard until now people with a broken screen or keyboard have gotten replacements sent asap and would’ve gotten the same, if they just wrote the support and not in the community as well.
So, I don’t see the gain for the general help seeker.

It was a bumpy start and the guys in support are really working their arses off, but a smooth ticketing system is one way to address these issues earlier and better and definitely superior than threads about it all over the place.
I mean, it’s written in the guidelines that you should look, if something was mentioned before and you shouldn’t double post and these rules are there for a reason. So, that we have a clean, streamlined forum to do the things it’s designed for and it can’t be hijacked by people. Imo the CMs are very lenient and diplomatic in this regard, which I generally appreciate, but this whole thing starts to get out of control and to design a system that is split into “only eve can help - ask only eve” and “everyone can help - ask everyone” is in no way worse than the current one or even bad. In my opinion it’s the way to go for the customer and the community. I want to write the support and get my issue resolved and not make an account on the forum and ask there as well. Additionally the constant tagging of the team is also going through the ceiling and just leads to the team not being able to see which things are urgent and which not.

And well, as I said, when you’re interested in the frequency of issues, you can just start a thread and let people vote. I’m sure they’re less frequent than one might think, especially when you count the instances in which Eve resolved the problem in a matter of days. Right now it seems like everyone has something wrong with his V and I agree that some things still need adjusting, but HEBs are the first major production run ever by Eve and in this quality by Emdoor and I don’t want to be in this forum, if Eve would’ve said that HEBs are shipping now and LBs even later…


#16

Totally agree

Frankly I think we have some immature drama Queens on this forum who don’t follow process aside from thinking that if they shout loudly they’ll get what they want.

Grow up. Life is unfair sometimes, you have to deal with it and move on. Much bigger problems in the world to contend with.


#17

Cmon folks, really?
Dont read those post if you dont want to. This is a forum, where does it end when anyone starts to delete posts because of xyz?
That we have the option to see other experiences of users that are frustrated/have issues, enables you to see outside of your personal bubble if your V is working fine…
That is one of the added values of the community and it is too our lever for the support/for Eve as a whole, to become better, dont you see?

And if i would want to purchase a V, this is where i would go to see for user feedback primarily.
Much better than watching some hipster on youtube with his staged poser drama-iluminated ‘i have a bonsai on my desk’ workspace in the background, talking about how exquisite multi-color back-light is or whatever.

You would only get better feedback than from the community, by talking to tens of users in person, which is impossible.

And yeah, life is unfair, sometimes you need to spend that millisecond to jump over a thread you dont care about…

But, as said before, lets rather implement a function into the community that would allow to filter categories - if you dont want to see support in latest etc., you filter it out, problem solved, all are happy.

As SteveYork posted above, this can be done at the moment with individual threads - which is less convenient but at least a start.


#20

it’s understandable you don’t want the same messages about cracked screens or other problems over and over again. And it’s good to think about future products. But a community could also be very useful to comfort each other. Right now it’s not easy to find information from other Eve customers with the same ‘bad’ experience as I had. My Eve arrived with a cracked screen and I have no idea how long it’s going to take. It would be nice to read about experiences from others. Since it’s understandable it is going to take some time, and that the Eve team is busy. It would give me peace of mind to read about hyper early bird who got a replacement device, who could give me an indicator how much longer I have to be patient :slight_smile:


#21

I feel Eve is becoming another “corporation” which was the opposite of what they wanted to become.

The whole point of Eve is the community. Just because this forum is structured poorly, does not mean you should silence people with problems.

Instead of silencing people with problems, maybe design the forum to be better structured. For example, reddit is easy to navigate and well organized. You have a topic, if you have the same problem you can comment in the topic, the replies are placed below (tierd/ladder/stepped) and its well organized (stops the clutter).

currently, the EVE forum is a maze and unorganized hence why people are making their own topic.

Dont blame the people, blame the game. You are going to have problems when creating a product. Pushing them aside without the community is going to shoot Eve in the foot.


#22

I can see why this may appear to be the case to some. However, the change in the way support is handled isn’t due to wanting to push customers off and have a veil to hide behind. Its due to a small team trying to get organized in a way that will provide consistent service to its customers. That’s pretty tough to do in a community setting.

Whether the Reddit model would work isn’t anything I’m capable of commenting on. I really appreciate that you gave a suggestion tho. I’m sure the team appreciates it as well. Its nice to see concerns voiced constructively. :slight_smile:


#23

All I know is the forum was much more enjoyable before we had like 20 threads a day about how so and so had such and such an issue with their V. Of course those issues are important, but as a non-V owner I’d rather not spend my limited time wading through all these threads that are irrelevant to me to find the stuff I like.

This is the first tech community I joined. I never joined a Dell, Lenovo, or HP forum because it’s a support forum, and frankly that’s very boring. If I had a problem with one of their products I’d prefer to just contact their support directly. And for those who are saying Eve’s support takes too long, remember these two things:

  1. There are plenty of examples to show that they aren’t just sitting on their butts all day. Just because they haven’t gotten back to you for a second time doesn’t mean you’ve been abandoned. I use to work at a tech support desk. Some tickets take longer than others.
  2. We also get really long delays in support from much larger companies, so given their size, it shouldn’t be surprising that support from Eve sometimes takes a little while.

#24

Was that before V was ending up in peoples hands? Not sure if i am pointing out the obvious but your going to see a surge of people discussing issues as more people receive their V. Its normal.

Its just this forum structure, it needs a redesign to organise discussions better. On Surface Reddit, thousands of people discussed and complained about SP4 battery…MS listened and put a bigger battery.

Eve is not like a normal company like Dell etc. People invested first and waited a year. It is normal to expect people to criticise or voice their opinion. A better company to compare is maybe Tesla, buyers criticise the delay. Tesla still produces premium products nonetheless. You don’t see Tesla telling their buyers to stay quiet on forums etc, they actually listen. General motors is a company that didn’t listen, and they went bankrupt.

One thing i would hate Eve to be, is fanboyism being over protective and sensitive to critics. As much as people enjoy the journey of the company, end of the day its also a product.


#25

Getting off topic, but maybe that the forum is simply not the most adapted tool for Eve’s target? Easy to setup for the start, but not the most adapted for growth,

How about an app which would allow a better interaction while separating the topics? A kind of 3D experience which depending on which side you are “looking” at would automatically set a different environment. for example :

  • if you just look in front of you, you then get all the Eve news, project under development and Consumer market intelligence topics.
  • If you look on the right side you find a section dedicated to support, reviews and general topic discussions
  • If you look on the left side you then get a section for social networking, in a similar way to Linkdn or facebook.

Those of course belong to one single environment and can call each others, but each of these environment/sections would be clearly separated. Visitors should default arrive with the front page, giving all the Eve updates, but then select which direction they want to go.
Eventually each user could setup it’s own welcome page by adding whichever widgets or topics that he wants to follow especially. This would allow more personalization (each can setup their own interest) while being more users inclusive maybe?