An Eve V big performance brother?


#1

I did find that intel has announced a 15W quad core i7 for the 8th gen i7. It promises a 30% increase of performance over the i7 7500U. So it got me thinking. I want a quad core 2 in 1 and maybe this could be the quad core that solves my problem. As I have read on the Eve V m5 performance thread, the Eve V could decently cool the m5 on a TDP of 15W. So how about a big brother for the Eve V? I like my laptops at 15"-17", I think a 15" big V could easily deal with a 15W quad core (maybe even let you raise the TDP a bit) with passive cooling. I would suggest that there would be 2 options, either a simple pogo-pin keyboard just like the Eve V has (with bluetooth) and the other option is a keyboard docking station (such as like the surface book) with a dGPU and extra battery and extra ports. Maybe a third option would be a desktop dock.

For that docking station I would go with just a 180 hinge, the connection with big V through a thunderbolt port (or 2 thunderbolt ports, 1 for the extra ports and battery and the other for the extra ports). It could either be a U shaped holder to insert the big V which has centralized thunderbolt(s) port(s). You can use it as a laptop with touchscreen than, or flip the big V around so you use the base just as a holder to stand the big V up, or use it like some 360° are set upright, using the base as a big kickstand.
The other way could be that the holder hinges like the acer aspire R7/R13. Than the thunderbolts should be on the opposite side and integrated in the hinging part. this way you don’t have to disconnect to big V to swivel it around, although this is harder and probably more expensive. So would be cool but largely unnecessary cost. Extra ports should be at least a ethernet port, regular HDMI and display port (not those mini things), probably extra usb ports (I sometimes don’t have enough with my 3 usb ports on my laptop).

And for the desktop dock: a bit like the keyboard dock, with a U shaped holder to insert the big V in, it automatically charges the V than and it could double as a eGPU dock and it could also have an integrated fan to cool the big V’s backside.

That is what came to my mind, and thought about sharing. It would be in line with the Eve V, it would provide decent performance, many things from the Eve V could be reused but scaled up. Also, more space so bigger battery possible. I think 15" is about right for a laptop with performance, 17" is nice for its extra space, 13" is on the small side for me, it could be fine but I prefer bigger screens than that, so that’s why I propose it with 15" and not another size, but I do know that there are many views on ideal size, so don’t focus on that part, it is more about bigger than V and better than V :slight_smile:


#2

A link about the 15W quad core: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-eighth-generation-core-i7-coffee-lake,34578.html


#3

Where are you pulling that from? For single core workload, it might come close to its max performance, but that’s still only 8-9W. It doesn’t go higher because it’s already at max frequency. In multicore workload, it doesn’t even come to that and doesn’t reach stable 3GHz before heat throttling. So 15W is definitely a “nope”. But I don’t really understand the fuss about fan noise, good fans are silent. So I would like to see a quad core convertible with active cooling… And a 45W CPU, because 100% performance boost is better than 30% :wink: But I don’t want to derail your thread, so go on…


#4

https://eve.community/t/ikirins-i5-performance-report/6126?source_topic_id=6917
Here it is clearly stated that the TDP was put on 15W and that the eve V could decently handle that, although it had some throttling probably caused by the surface temperature sensor.

And yes, a 45W quad core would be nice to me, but than we are talking vaio Z canvas like things, and I can see that that is less attractive to people. But if it would be done, I would be more than happy than it, it would suit my needs more than a 15W quad core, but I fear it would be less interesting product for many. I just proposed this 15W quad core as an intermediate solution between a Vaio Z canvas and an Eve V.

Oh and forgot to add: I also don’t mind fan noise if it is kept quit for daily use. The surface pro 3 ramps up high even when just using internet and spotify. Maybe a great solution would be to implement eve V type of passive cooling combined with a fan cooling that could be used when temperatures get to high.


#5

Hi there Brech! :slight_smile:

I was just skimming over the topic and should elaborate a bit more on the “15W TDP” I had written in my performance testing thread!

So, to give a quick TL;DR: The 15W were what the CPU could consume at it’s most - over time the CPU was heat-throtteling when it was consuming ~12W in the Cinebench Multi-Core test (which is still pretty amazing in my eyes, given that we’re not having a fan inside the V to push out the heat).


#6

I like the idea of a V Big Brother Dock, which includes a higher performance processor, additional disk storage, etc. The V docks into the big brother, using the disk in the V and the processor for some functions, the added processor in the dock for others and allows data from the added disk storage to be used interchangeably.

This would allow for a single environment that travels when necessary but docks for desktop use and would simply be the perfect solution for someone with a home and travel pc. I assume it would include some sort of thunderbolt 3 docking process.

I would assume that the big brother would have a cutout for the V to fit into thereby eliminating the need for any cables to connect the two.


#7

I think you did miss my point. My idea is a big V tablet with the extra performance. I don’t know how you would be able to use a dock for a processor, than the Eve V would just be a monitor for the dock, and than that should have been implemented in the Eve V to begin with. Or did I misunderstand your reply?


#8

You misunderstood. The V would operate in a multiprocessor mode when docked, with the big brother taking on heavy load functions and the V taking on light functions, and the V would be on its own when undocked. Each would have disk space but the docked mode could use both, with the understanding that in travel mode, only the local disk on the V would be available. There would be 2 monitors as well, the V monitor and the big brother monitor, I am not sure what the monitor on the V would be used for yet, but I think we could think of something. The V could be the only touch screen component of the big brother, making it a great creative studio. And gaming could use the V for navigation and the big brother for display and raw processing power.

I am making up as I go (if it wasn’t obvious), the benefit is that there is a desktop and travel version of the PC, with the V serving the travel version.


#9

Well 12W is still good, it is 4/5th of 15W and 15,6" 16:9 is almost double the surface area of 12,3" 3:2. 15,6" 3:2 has about 60% more surface area, so I guess a 15,6" tablet could handle 15W than


#10

Well you sure are creative! I am still a bit confused about it. For me the big brother would be a tablet on its own, but I do like your idea of Eve having a desktop with docking for the Eve V. I assume the desktop is than something like a AiO since you are talking about it having a separate screen? Only downside is that I need a quad core for traveling, so the Eve V would not suit me on that side (that’s partially why I propose a bigger Eve V with a quad core, I need to be able to video edit on the go so extra cores and bigger screen are always nice to have). I would say that you can work out the idea of a desktop with Eve V dock and start a thread about it, I think that would work easier to understand


#11

I wouldn’t say so, not necessarily… I think people don’t buy them because they’re way too expensive. The prices basically begin at $2000, which is already above most people’s budget for a laptop and you still get just a base model. So most people instead would just get a much more powerful laptop and a separate tablet, and still save money on that combo. Eve V is a bit different, as it’s very light (additional value) and if you add up the price of a laptop with similar specs and tablet with simolar screen size, you basically get the same price so it’s worth it. The same can be said about SP4 as the price difference isn’t that much too big from buying separate devices. But if you take, say, Vaio Z, one can easily get a significantly more powerful laptop for $1000 (say quad core i7 and GTX960M) and then you still have money for base model Eve V to serve as a tablet :smile:

TL;DR I strongly believe much more people would want to buy a quad core convertible if it weren’t so expensive :slight_smile:


#12

Well, I kind of need a quad core convertible. Well, not really needing it, but I prefer to have 1 device for on the go and not 2. So a convertible or tablet that could both be great for taking notes and drawings, and can serve for video editing. Much better than having 2 devices that serve each there own things. I heard that the i7 7700U could do some light video editing, so I guess the 15W quad core could do that too. And if it does, than it would be great for me, even though 45W quad cores are better (and more expensive, look at the vaio Z canvas). Also, 16GB ram is a must, I hit 90+% RAM usage pretty regular on this surface pro 3 i7 8GB RAM, and hitting the limit isn’t great :sunglasses:


#13

Yes it’s indeed more convenient to have both in one device, but it’s simply too expensive. But I hope someone like Eve could fix that problem :wink:

By the way, Windows 10 wastes a lot of RAM for some absolutely useless services, so running out isn’t as bad as it was with Windows 7. For example, my desktop is constantly using 8GB out of 10GB of RAM it has, and only about 2GB of that is used by apps I actually use. Meanwhile, my tablet only has 4GB of RAM and at least 1GB is free, and it doesn’t lag because of that. That proves Windows itself can live very well within 3GB of RAM, so I could still raise my actual RAM usage by 5GB and not run out. Windows would just reduce the amount of memory it wastes :slight_smile: I think that might be the case for you too, you could verify that by going to resource monitor and seeing how much your software actually uses.


#14

Well, I use google chrome, I don’t have to look up what wastes my ram. When doing research for paper or such, I easily hit 100% ram and than things get laggy for me and I wish I have 16GB ram for my school device. And I hope Eve can combine it, they did knock of a big part of the price compared to the others, so if it could make a 15,6" vaio Z canvas like device (with thunderbolt for eGPU or a performance base/dock as I explained above) for 1500$ instead of 2000$ that vaio asks, it would be nice. And they could provide an i5 for less than an i7 so that could be good fro more budget oriented buyers. And than they could provide the performance base separately for those who need a dgpu, and the desktop base separately for those who don’t need a performance base but want an easy solution for an eGPU for the Eve V. I have no idea what that would cost though so I am just messing around with what prices I would like to see with what specs.


#15

May I ask you why you still use Chrome if you know it eats through your RAM like it’s starving? Just use Firefox and your problems are solved :wink: This is for sure cheaper than buying more RAM :wink:


#16

Well, that could work, but still even without using google chrome I get high ram usage when having to use VPN to use programs from the university. So if I would use another program on top of that it would also max out. So I could still use the extra ram even if I switch from internet browser. Than I could get some work done without having to use one of the universities desktop for research and the surface pro to use the program and be able to safe the files on the surface. Such a double setup is not great to get work done, and certainly if you have to type things over instead of being able to copy-paste. Just some extra RAM and I won’t have to fight for one of the universities desktops. And no, I won’t take my laptop with 16GB ram since that would mean I am taking my 2 computers with me, which is risky that if you get run over by a car (cycling in a city like Gent can get pretty dangerous) that you damage both devices. No way that I am going to risk that.


#17

Erm, sorry for ignorance, but what does VPN have to do with RAM? I’ve used it quite a lot and never noriced any difference in RAM consumption…


#18

Not Necessary VPN but the fact that you use the programs over internet seems to be the heavy part. Or maybe the programs are just RAM intensive, I have no clue, only know that it can eat some ram


#19

Too bad we can’t do something like an ECPU where the V use a Y cpu when out and about and when docked, can use a U series high end CPU to off load more intensive application. Not sure if this is possible but it would be cool to have in the future, then the 2 in 1 can be use for a longer period of time.


#20

There is no difference whether you do stuff online or offline, it eats through your internet bandwidth, but doesn’t affect RAM usage at all. Maybe you just run some RAM intensive applications… But then again, I’d check if they’re actually using all your RAM or if Windows is reporting false occupation like it normally does. Just that task manager reads 90% occupied doesn’t mean you used up 90% of your RAM, it might even be you still have 50% available!

That wouldn’t make much sense… A separate CPU needs its own RAM, its own graphics card, its own peripherals and so on - it’s basically a computer on its own, it’s not called central processing unit without reason. :wink: