A "do it yourself" eGPU by Eve? Is there any interest?


#42

Just for information (and about professional eGPUs):


#43

This isn’t really practical as the V’s cpu will bottleneck the gpu unless you go with a “low-end” to “mid-end” gpu. (And of course it won’t do you that much good as the hd520 will run the game as well, maybe not as good, but it won’t be too big of a difference).

BUT, if you really want a eGPU for some reason, something like EXP GDC would come in handy. You could crack open the V and plug it in the m-pcie or the m.2 slot. It’s around $50, but it won’t be as convenient as a 300 dollar thunderbolt 3 one.


#44

Erm, tell me you’re joking?
Intel HD graphics is a joke of a GPU, it can’t run any recent games with playable framerates. Adding a desktop graphics card would dramatically improve gaming performance, and I mean 10 times higher framerate. Maybe even more, depending on the card you choose.

And no, don’t suggest opening the tablet. I’ve tried it, I’ve failed. You would fail too. It’s not designed to be easy to open, and it is pretty much impossible unless you’re an expert with professional tools. And now I’m talking about disassembling it once. Imagine doing it every day, every time you want to plug/unplug your eGPU. Even if you’re the best technician in the world, your tablet would be dead within a month because the screen just can’t stand so much wear&tear.


#45

The GPU would be bottlenecked dramatically by the cpu. And you also have to acknowledge that the performance of the eGPU will decrease to about 60~80% depending on which screen you use. (Imagine an 1080 w/ a m3 cpu). You might still get a large performance boost, but it’s not worth spending $500 just to get that bit of performance. Yet, if you actually use a gpu that won’t be bottlenecked, then there wouldn’t be that much of a improvement.

As for opening the tablet, thanks for the tip… definitely won’t do it when I buy a V.


#46

Maybe you should look it up buddy… Thunderbolt 3 has 4 PCIe3.0 lanes, which “bottlenecks” a GTX1060 by 5% or so. 10 or 15% for 1080, can’t remember. Can’t find the source right now, but it’s floating around in multiple places on this forum. There are extensive gaming benchmarks on that. As for the CPU, i5-7Y54 should be enough for 60fps/max settings in most games, if you have a decent GPU.


#47

There’s quite a lot of data on frame rates over on egpu.io, and some recent
comparisons of closely spec’d PCs and laptops with/without an egpu. There’s
always a hit, but not always that significant, especially if feeding an
external monitor rather than back to the laptop’s display. Strangely, to me
higher power GPUs are less affected than lower, statistically - I expected
the TB3 bandwidth limit to kick in at high resolutions and high frame
rates, but apparently not! For sure, Paul is correct, that only discrete
laptop GPUs are a match for eGPU solutions, which is why so many external
enclosures are coming to market now (see HP Omen accelerator, Aorus, Sonnet
etc).


#48

Maybe with GTX10xx? But with previous generations it wouldn’t be even remotely close… And those 10xx cards are really power hungry, not what you’d put in a thin&light laptop at all. Desktop cards are still more powerful than laptop cards, even in eGPU…


#49

The 60~80% performance loss was stated on the EXP GDC site, which doesn’t use tb3. That’s my bad. Yet, I did found this interesting forum post w/ benchmarks https://egpu.io/forums/mac-setup/pcie-slot-dgpu-vs-thunderbolt-3-egpu-internal-display-test/
I haven’t found the benchmarks on this forum yet, so please don’t make my word for it.

The CPU bottlenecking depends on what you take “most games” as. Something like csgo would probably be enough but not witcher 3 (It doesn’t even meet the minimum requirements). Considering that, is it really worth it to buy a decent gpu, perhaps a gtx1080, just to run “most games” instead of “all games” that the gpu was meant for?


#50

If 10-series is power hungry, how would you describe Vega? XD (ahem, @iKirin)

On a serious note though, the technology is far from mature at this point. I think i read somewhere that while the average FPS arent bad, there are dips here and there thats going to hurt the experience. In addition to that, you cant really share the bandwidth with other things like USB, as it will pull the GPU performance down even further. I dont see why anyone would spend their cash for a 1060 and have it performing like a 1050Ti.


#51

Yeah that mac was using the internal display which eats away a lot of bandwidth. But Eve V screen is too small for gaming IMO, so it doesn’t really matter…

Sure it’s probably not worth buying a GTX1080, but I think 1060 is perfectly manageable. It will run what it was meant to run, and with this eGPU option it would be much cheaper than building a whole desktop. My desktop with Intel Core i3-2100 and GTX660 is good enough for me and I have no problems playing whatever I want, which includes AAA titles from the last couple of years. Eve V’s processor not only has the same benchmark performance, but it’s even faster in short bursts.

@Patrick_Hermawan yes you can share the bandwidth, remember than PCIe only uses 32Gbps so you still have 8Gbps free.

It’s simple: you can spend your cash on a 1060 that performs as 1050Ti, you can spend it on 1050Ti that performs as 950, or you can spend much more cash on 1060 + a whole desktop computer that just performs as 1060. Or you can take the same cash that you would spend on 1060 eGPU and build a desktop with 950 in the very best case. It’s still much worse than 1050Ti performance, don’t you think?


#52

A small space heater that gets back part of the cost when you send it mining? :smiley: Just kidding btw, let’s see the benchmarks - also, VEGA 56 is my opinion the more interesting VEGA card :wink:

@pauliunas I think you’re missing the use-case for an eGPU in that case - in my eyes the use-case for an eGPU is for someone who does not want a Desktop because he’s on the go quite often, but an eGPU is much easier to transport than a whole desktop - and requires much less setup, as you just unpack your eGPU, the notebook/V and plug in 3 cables - HDMI, Power for the eGPU and TB3.

Yes, a Desktop is going to be better in almost all cases, but it’s much more immobile. Do I think everyone will go for an eGPU? No. It’s more of a niché in my mind, but one that will make quite a bunch of people very happy that it now finally is filled. :slight_smile:


#53

Fair point. I guess it depends on how low eGPU boxes can go. When its less than $100, its a no brainer as you cant get a desktop PC with the performance of the Eve V with that money. But if its $100 or more, Id rather have a PC with Pentium G4560 + 1050 Ti, which would probably still demolish the Eve V + 1060. Not to mention the advantage of not being confined to just one device. I do understand that for some people (like what @iKirin mentioned above), its a disadvantage rather than advantage.

Id say those purposes would be much better served by a laptop with dGPU. Sure, eGPU is easier to transport than a whole desktop (though DAN A4-SFX is just as big as a Razer Core), but still requires external power, cables, and more importantly, still much larger and heavier than a workstation/gaming laptop. Assuming money is no object, I would rather carry a Razer Blade and Eve V in my backpack, than a Razer Core and Eve V.


#54

I’m not neglecting your use case, but allow me to add mine: instead of having two computers and paying for two motherboards, processors, power supplies, hard drives and so on (everything is included in your tablet) you just buy an eGPU accessory that connects a graphics card to the components you already have, instead of buying new ones. That’s my use case.

@Patrick_Hermawan:

  • That desktop example would probably be equivalent to Eve V, it would certainly not “demolish” it. But you can’t get it for $100, not even for $200. Some quick math: $50 for motherboard (taking the cheapest I can find), $50 for RAM (again, very rough, but 8GB is usually more expensive than that), $50 for PSU, $50 for hard drive and voila, you’re already over your budget of $200 and we still haven’t considered the processor (not taking into account casing, as we’re talking about a DIY product that ships without one)
  • Having one device is anything but a confinement. It’s an advantage. You always have the same programs, the same files wherever you are. There is no “oops, I left that Word document on my tablet, I need to take it out of my bag, put it into a USB flash drive and transfer it here”. You don’t need to install programs twice and configure them twice. I’ve lived too long with my desktop, tablet and phone as separate devices - it’s about time I dumped my oldie desktop and put a nice little eGPU in its place.

You can’t remove the dGPU from a laptop, it will always be bulky and have pitiful battery life. With eGPU, you can just unplug it and have an ultraportable tablet like Eve V.


#55

The model I’m aiming for is the mobility benefits of my primary device being fully portable, but during my regular travels I have no time for serious gaming. Once back home, however, I want to use this primary but mobile device for the occasional game and also for the extra horsepower in Adobe Lightroom. I think I am right in the middle of the target market for the growing supply of eGPUs, I just don’t like the current price for what is really a quite simple external interface enclosure!

Some hopefully useful links to egpu.io benchmarks and analyses below, but in my opinion the headline is that running an external 1080-sized display via an external 1060 card will give playable framerates with pretty much every modern game at a reasonable quality level, so why not?! Other than price… There are other specific case benchmarks on the site but sometimes hidden in posted video screenshots rather than images within the posts.

https://egpu.io/forums/mac-setup/pcie-slot-dgpu-vs-thunderbolt-3-egpu-internal-display-test/

https://egpu.io/forums/thunderbolt-enclosures/a-call-for-measurements-isolating-the-thunderbolt-effect/#post-8809

https://egpu.io/forums/thunderbolt-enclosures/a-call-for-measurements-isolating-the-thunderbolt-effect/paged/6/#post-14987

https://egpu.io/forums/thunderbolt-enclosures/gigabyte-showcases-tiny-aorus-graphics-dock-at-pax-east/paged/2/#post-16169

https://egpu.io/forums/news/rx-580-review-amd-xconnect-freesync/#post-15638

https://egpu.io/forums/thunderbolt-enclosures/review-and-performance-analysis-of-razer-core/#post-8746


#56

That sounds more like a use case for dGPU like the Surface Book or a gaming notebook. But yeah a portable eGPU is one possible solution for that. It seems others think so as well:

For me the eGPU is more like the most powerful dock I can get.

My estimation for the V

  • 50% USB C dock at work
  • 30% mobile use
  • 10% undocked at home
  • 10% eGPU dock at home

My current setup is an Surface Pro 4 and a mITX PC (i5 dual core with a GTX 1060). So on the desk I have the desktop computer, a SP docking station, a mechanical USB switch that connect to an hub for the input devices, network switch to provide LAN for two computers. Basically lots of clutter and from time I think my keyboard is broken because I forgot to select the right button on the USB switch. :slight_smile:

For convenience I would get a dock for V anyway. But with an eGPU enclosure I can get an one that makes it possible for the V to replace the mITX PC, cleaning up all that annoyance.


#57

I hope EVE will have both a regular compact dock and an eGPU as separate accessories/projects. A lot of us are not gamers or graphics heavy users that require an eGPU. I certainly don’t want to have an eGPU in my office.


#58

Here is no need to just hope. EVE V supports USB C PD and TB3. You can get anything from a simple USB-C hub to an eGPU enclosure.

An example for a hub (you will need an USB PD charger, too):
https://www.amazon.com/Catnee-Multi-port-adapter-charging-Macbook/dp/B0719S758V/

An docking station:
https://www.amazon.com/Dell-Dock-WD15-Adapter-Type-C/dp/B01C8PHWQY/

Or an TB3 eGPU enclosure


#59

This is exactly the usecase I imagned, which stopped me from buying a Surface Pro.

I think upgradability is also a very interesting point. You don’t have to upgrade two devices.

Let’s say I buy the eve V and a eGPU. 2500$ total.

If in 3-6 years my GPU is too slow, I just buy a new GPU, if my Laptop is to slow, I buy the next version of Eve V.
With the usual setup of Desktop and Laptop if the GPU is too slow, I can just buy a new GPU, but as soon as the CPU is too slow, I have to buy both, new Desktop CPU and a new Laptop. Worscase, my desktop CPU socket is not supported anymore and I would have to buy a whole new computer.

The only Problem I see, is an upgrade to Thunderbolt or the cable, which won’t let me use my old Laptop oder eGPU. But since the eGPU is cheaper than a whole computer, it doesn’t hurt as much.


#60

Since eGPU box is already massively bottlenecking a GTX 1080, the same will happen to the GTX 2060. GTX 2080 will be severely limited that you wont get half of its advertised performance


#61

Hello Patrick. I cannot agree with your brief statement that the “eGPU box is already massively bottlenecking a GTX 1080”. On the pages I linked to above, and in particular the posts by “Enjoy”, there is some extensive testing and analysis of differing configurations. Bottlenecking is more accurately termed throttling, I suggest, and the estimates are that half of the throttling is due to limitations of the laptop CPUs and interfaces when compared with a desktop system. When using an external display the reduction in performance is typically 20% lower than a desktop system with the same type of GPU, but if then sending the video display data back tot he laptop’s internal display than that drop does increase to 30-40%. Note that these performance drops are lower when the game or benchmark test is biased towards being CPU-intensive (a minority of cases, it appears), and the key is that the playability remains very strong using any of the current mid- to high-end GPU cards. A different world from Intel or other integrated solutions!

Please note that there have been issues with some of the earlier TB3-equipped laptops/convertibles, and even with the HP x360 15 that has a discrete GPU, in which only half of the full 4 lanes have been connected so only providing 16Gbps of bandwidth rather than 32 and effectively performing as a TB2 interface. Most of the more recent TB3 interfaces do appear to have enabled the full 4 lanes.

Also note that Apple will apparently release their own eGPU box, which is why they are now directly offering their developer kit using the current Sonnet box bundled with a GPU. I think Eve is very well placed to introduce a more competitively priced eGPU device than any other vendor, and hence can maintain a competitive edge. eGPU enclosures are simply too expensive for what they are, right now, perhaps with some parties recouping early development costs which will now not apply to other Windows/Intel vendors as the firmware/driver development work for plug-and-play has already been done. Perhaps in three or four years from now there will be no need for eGPUs at home/desk, but the current hardware for truly portable mobile devices with good battery life is not available.