A cooling pad for eve V?


#21

Nah, actually for laptops with bad active cooling, these cooling pads can do miracles. My uncle has a laptop that’s really unbearably slow (Atom style) normally, but he plays video games with a cooling pad :smiley:


#22

How about a low power peltier chip and thin fans that dissipate the heat that’s generated by the peltier chip. Exactly @Konstantinos’ design but with the chips and fans instead of a passive radiator style cooling mechanism.


#23

unless there’s technologies available I am not aware of, I think the only realistic thing would be peltier elements, potentially supported by dissipators and fans as suggested by @haashfaq… though even for the peltier elements alone, I doubt using those would be realistic in a setting involving the V running on battery (and powering the cooling pad) since asfaik those do not exactly tend to be efficient… (still, even If I can only use it on my desk at home it would be nice to have such a thing :relieved:)

Disclaimer: am not an engineer involved with peltier cooling though… and will be glad to hear it can cool anything with basically as much as no power consumption whatsoever :wink:


#24

You could do a two part cooler where the peltier and fans will reside on the top half of V and then have another panel that holds thin batteries on the kickstand and you could use a ribbon style connector to link the two panels electrically. That way you don’t eat the battery of V and don’t sacrifice the motility of the kickstand


#25

[quote]
In refrigeration applications, thermoelectric junctions have about 1/4th the efficiency compared to conventional means (they offer around 10–15% efficiency of the ideal Carnot cycle refrigerator, compared with 40–60% achieved by conventional compression cycle systems (reverse Rankine systems using compression/expansion).[6]) Due to this lower efficiency, thermoelectric cooling is generally only used in environments where the solid state nature (no moving parts, low maintenance, compact size, and orientation insensitivity) outweighs pure efficiency.[/quote]

Seems like there are big concerns over power efficiency, which OFC is a key factor in our device (unless plugged in). Has someone crunched the numbers here already or what was prime argument pro the proposal of using Peltier elements?


#26

I don’t think we’ll be using it for heavy work on battery :slight_smile:


#27

Imo, with peltier elements you could easily cool specific spots, like those where heat from components gets transferred to the aluminium… meaning you could orient the cooling to exactly the spot where the processor is (as I don’t assume its heat will be transferred to the aluminium somewhere else using a heatpipe ;))

I don’t really think fans alone will do the trick as you can’t really produce a proper airflow away from a metal plate (ie, the aluminium body), you could only create an airflow passing by it (though, come to think of it, a constant airflow passing by basically the whole back of the V may also do the trick :thinking:) .

Here a few arguments:

well, okay, sorry… I couldn’t resist mocking you a little about asking for those considerung you had quoted some… :smiley:

To me, if I attatch an extra cooling pad, I want it to cool really well… meaning I would go for active cooling rather than using any passive radiator.

On the whole, I agree with @pauliunas… On those opportunities I would intend to use additional cooling, the V would be placed on a desk and have access to power. In this case of course, efficiency would matter little (though it still does) as in doubt, I would priorize performance. :sweat_smile:
Still, the option to use it on the go might be nice (though not necessary for me personally).

While I am not entirely sure about how strong exactly (think not too strong) the cooling would need to be for @mlivesey’s use case, I agree that it might be nice to use the V with additional cooling on one’s lap (though imho only on rare occasions)… the “not too bulky” part could easily be achieved using peltier elements. On the other hand, situations in which you’d wanna use it on your lap might exclude comfortable access to power outlets, hence my concern about efficiency. :wink:

and now, to complete my two cents on what speaks in favor of peltier elements, let me express that both rather silent cooling and the peltier effect are cool :sunglasses:


#28

How about a dock/cooler 2 in 1 if we want a wall tethered option. Hub with multiple ports, power, and cooling. We could make it so it had thunderbolt pass through. Also make it have variable angles. Just an idea


#29

Seems like my idea of a fan based cooling pad won’t be that viable. I still have to get my hands on a fan cooling pad to test the influence on the surface pro. If it would be a fixed setup, water cooling would perform better than fans. I don’t know about peltiers, the systems I see use a metal heat sink which adds quit a bit of thickness. But for a fixed setup those heat sinks won’t matter. Or I am seeing the wrong cooling peltier elements.

I have tried to search for influence of cooling pads on apple unibody laptops, but couldn’t find anything viable. Otherwise it would just be easy for me to have a laptop like case for it, with impact protection for the eve V, since I would use it in the auditoria of my university, transporting it in my backpack by bike. Environments with risk of impact. My experience with smartphone and tablets are that they don’t need big impact for a cracked screen. For laptops, if they fall from 1m height (desk height), the thing can get fucked up pretty easily. I do take care of my stuff, but some family members and friends aren’t that careful. And in the auditoria accidents do happen. Fortunately, I have protective casing for my smartphone and tablet, and I don’t bring my laptop to the classes.


#31

Have you chaps seen the Line Dock?

It’s a bit over the top (IMHO), but it is an example of a flat pad-like device with a small peltier cooler, fans, and a battery.


#32

That Line Dock seems pretty nice, cooling and storage. In use a samsung external ssd to save some storage on my devices and that way I can reach my documents, my music, my pictures etc from every windows device without having to transfer it to every device. For me this seems a great solution, even though the price is pretty high (a lacie external ssd with high transfer speed potential is around 300€ for 2tb ssd.

I found a cooling pad earlier this day and did some testing on the cooling effect:
I started by watching some 4 minutes of 4K youtube video to get the surface pro 3 warmed up. Than I tested with cinebench R15, run a cpu test and than a gpu test, to than run a cpu again and a gpu etc. Test conducted in me bedroom, at 17,9°C

This are the result without cooling pad:

  1. 259cb 26,33fps
  2. 252cb 24,33fps
  3. 245cb 26,18fps
  4. 242cb 26,33fps
  5. 242cb 25,91fps
  6. 242cb 26,05fps
  7. 243cb 25,77fps

Than I added the cooling pad and started immediately to avoid the system cooling off, results:

  1. 258cb 25,87fps
  2. 258cb 26,16fps
  3. 257cb 26,16fps
  4. 257cb 26,15fps
  5. 258cb 25,88fps
  6. 256cb 25,92fps
  7. 257cb 26,21fps

Without fan the systems seems to settle at 242-243cb and averaging 25,84fps. With the cooling pad it did manage to settle at 257-258cb and averaging 26,05fps. This is a differend of 15 cb which means the situation with the cooling pad performs 6,2% better than without cooling pad. As seen in the pictures, it was a pretty confined space behind the surface, on the right you can see a clock, which indicated a local heat change from 17,9 to 18,4. Which would mean that the cooling pad situation would recirculate heated air, making it less effective than are with constant temperature. This is a DIY setup and nowhere near perfect nor scientific. Worth nothing is that the conducted test lasted an hour, and during that hour the battery went from 100% to 35%. I didn’t have time to try if using a powerbank for the fan would be more effective than the fan powered by usb from the surface pro.


#33

thats a big ass cooling pad :smiley:
Now the challenge is achieving those results in a somehow adequate form, wether its going to be portable or not.

Now i wonder where you live, can’t imagine finding 2TB SSD for 300 Euros, not even internal ones :open_mouth:
nvm, NLD = Netherlands. Seriously? 300 Euros? IF yes i need to go shopping there sometime :smiley:


#34

This cooling pad has been used for a 17" laptop, but the fans are not that big, it consist of 2 small fans. To get more accurate measurements I should dismantle the cooling pad and use the fans in close proximity to the surface pro, since now the can easily just circulate the air, when up close the air will resist en try to get out by the fans. That’s why I think a setup with static pressure fans, to avoid re-circulation of the heated air.

And I found the 299€ lacie 2TB at Belgian krefel (I alm from Belgium): https://www.krefel.be/nl/multimedia/harde_schijf-usb-sd/solid_state_drives_ssd/rugged_thunderbolt_solid_state_drive_2_tb_usb_3_0-oranje/PKEY_A5_B794_C899_41002062#full-description-wrapper
Some further research gives me the impression they are selling the lacie rugged USB-C and did miss them on the thunderbolt thing. I’m sorry for the false hope! seems like lacie 1TB thunderbolt ssd is running 699 freaking euros! :disappointed_relieved:


#35

the link you posted still seems crazy cheap, here in germany with a quick search the cheapest 2TB SSD is about 500 Euros and thats talking about internal ones :smiley:


#36

As I said, I think they mixed up the lacie rugged thunderbolt (which is ssd) and the rugged usb-C (which is HDD), hence the low price. As always, double check when seeing products on the internet, I should have done that


#37

Oh, ok. Well it clearly says ssd on the website but that would’ve been too good to be true. For a HDD it’s actually damn expensive.


#38

I just came across this tread. What I like best about the original idea, apart from the cooling, is to have it integrated with a stand/riser.

I totally want a stand to have the screen standing about 30cm from my desk, so the top of the screen is like on eye level (or close to that) and then with the keyboard undocked, you can have an optimal ergonomic placement of both screen and keyboard.

In the past I used an Asus Zenpad, and I would always carry with me an external keyboard + stand to put the laptop on. The detachable keyboard with the EVE V combined with a stand to raise the screen would make it a perfect and productive setup.


#39

what if there was a case for the V with:
heat sinc
fan
battery

all in one thin, light, durable protective case for the V


#40

I got interested in Eve V because it is light-weight and fanless, all those ideas to add an external element that has fans in it and forces a user to carry one more piece of hardware are nonsense to me. I’d rather have some passive liquid cooling inside the V. Since I think this is not feasible at the current state of the production, maybe it could be nice to have in the next gen.
Another approach could be to add some sort of cooling in the back of the keyboard, so if we want to cold down the V, we could simply back-fold it against the back of the V, but that’s just an idea (you are forced to use the virtual/secondary keyboard this way)


#41

The cooling system of the V performs well enough that the CPU hits its power draw limits before it hits its thermal limits. Additional cooling or an additional fan should not improve performance, but will add size, weight and noise (and we’re already bigger and heavier than our competitors, but do pride ourselves in our silent, fanless operation).

With a battery life already well ahead of our competition, I also don’t see much of a need for additional battery.

Accessories are cool, but making accessories for the sake of making accessories seems a bit arbitrary…