A cooling pad for eve V?


#1

Hi Eve community

I am a student who would like to have a 2-in-1 for an affordable price. So I guess I am not the only one who thinks the eve V fits this description. But if I have ever learned something from my laptops, it is that good specs and thin profile aren’t a good combination. For laptops you simply buy a cooling pad, they can help keep your laps from burning and make it even possible to place your laptop in a soft surface without burning things down. So it got me thinking, the eve V i7 has great specs, even for a laptop it are great specs. Only thing different is the GPU, I am used to discrete GPU’s. But with the great specs, it is a lot thinner than many laptops. So it made me think that the heat production could have an impact on the performance. Since I am planning to use eve V to replace my laptop, it would be troubling that I not only would give up the gpu, but also would need to give up the i7 and 16gb RAM performance.

For the moment my laptop is in repair and I can use a surface pro 3 i7 with 8gb ram. My experience is that even with simply some internet browsing on edge that there are places hot to the touch and the surface pro. Even after only 5 minutes. As comparison, my iPad only gets hot to the touch after half an hour of internet browsing. I did some cinebench r15 testing and the results are:
CPU: 260cb but falls down to 252-250cb after a second run. I should note that the surface was already used to check emails, so it was already running hot to the touch.
GPU: 22.98 fps that dropped to 19.61 f’s

In comparison: a laptop with quad core i7, 8gb ram and a gtx 950m did manage to get 651cb and 90.55 fps.
Since there are on the internet some sources of people who managed to increase performance of the surface pro 3 by using a USB fan and pointing it to the upper right corner of the surface pro (where the CPU would be located). I was thinking that maybe the high spec 2-in-1’s can use a cooling pad, to get better performance out of it. First thing I will do is get my hands on a USB fan or cooling pad to test out if it does have an influence.

My idea for a cooling pad would be something that can hold the eve V upright (translation: it acts as a stand), something that can protect the corners of the eve V (a drop on a corner is the most dangerous drop for a tablet, smartphone or laptop). To save space, the fans should be placed close to the eve V, so that would mean using static pressure optimized fans for best results.

Important factors:

  • location of CPU and other components which heats up easily
  • location of ports, since we don’t want the cooling pad interfering with the docks. For example on this surface pro 3 almost every corner is usable for protection except 1 where the 3.5mm aux is. But there can be solutions for this. Also it should not interfere with the speakers.
  • how much thickness can be added without it looking ridiculous.
  • if the integrated stand of the eve V interferes with cooling. If it does with the idea that when used heavily the stand would be open, it can lessen the effect of the cooling pad.
  • design: I think everybody would agree that we don’t want an ugly ventilator pad.

What are the thoughts of the community? Of course it may seem ridiculous, but for me it would be useful, since I plan on using it for not only my studies, but also for rendering videos for my YouTube channel. For those who would say that the integrated GPU wouldn’t be food enough: from the money I get from selling my laptop once I have the eve V, I would look to buy an eGPU with thunderbolt, to enhance the performance. If there are people with suggestions, they are always welcome! Once I have my eve V, I will make a cooling pad myself, if there is interest in it I will post the progress on my YouTube channel so that you can get inspired. Since I am fairly new to eve v project, I don’t know everything yet, so don’t mind to point out if I missed something (such as the intern cooling capabilities of eve V).

Greetings,
Brecht Schatteman


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#2

Hi Brecht! Great post you got going on here!

We have actually talked about this idea within our team. Its not necessarily a bad idea!

The thing here to ask IMO is: is it a problem to have the device run hotter if you’re doing something that is typically done on a table (like rendering videos) - I mean, you are not rendering videos while using it as a tablet, right?

This would mean after the CPU heavy task such as rendering or gaming is stopped, the device starts running cooler.

We’re also engineering a solution currently that users could up their CPUs TDP to 7W instead of the typical 4.5W but I can’t confirm yet whether it will work.

This gives you a nice boost, but simultaneously makes it run hotter (basically the higher watts you have, the more heat you generate and more battery you consume).

We were just recently able to confirm that V works with Thunderbolt 3 eGFX solutions, so upping the graphical oomph of the device should be no problem.

Which system have you previously used and how much of the systems capacity was being used for the tasks you described?


#3

When video editing it would be used as a laptop. It would work easier, since I prefer to use a mouse and not the mousepad. since I am just starting up the channel, I have only tested what I currently have at hand. My laptop is an asus Asus N551JX-CN098H. It has a quad core i7, 16 gb ram and a gtx950m with 4gb dedicated memory. This is an overkill for video editing, but I also use it for some gaming (the toughest game I play is forza horizon 3 on low settings, which is about the highest the laptop can reach). The other device I tested it on is this surface pro 3 i7 8gb RAM which isn’t sufficient for comfortably edit video’s. It is possible to edit video’s on it, but sometimes the sound or the video lags or run asynchrone. It would be great that the CPU could be boosted, I’m not sure if it is necessary but my bet is it would help. I have read about the thunderbolt eGFX is working, it seems promising that the eve V can be just as a kind of desktop (take this with a grain of salt) like the surface pro can. If the eGPU would be necessary for video editing, I guess I would work with an external monitor as well, but I’m not sure about it. The cost would get pretty high, since a decent eGPU casing can easily reach 400€ without a GPU. But it is something that I keep in mind.

Also, the cooling pad I am thinking of would also acts as a stand, thinking about the hinging point on the bottom and not in the middle of the eve V. This because I have seen several times people with a surface pro who use the integrated stand on the tables in our auditoria, and than the stand can get close to the edge of the table, and I have seen a surface pro getting damages that way. If you hing form the bottom, it can prevent this problem. But ofcourse, this would make it more a laptop than a 2-in-1 system, but for use during class it doesn’t matter, and for use to render it also wouldn’t matter, since using it as a tablet seems less useful for editing IMO. Also, the corner protection I was thinking of is also inspired by seeing people getting their surface pro damaged by stupid accidents. And knowing myself, I would also be in such situations. I have an ipad air1 and I use a tech21 cover for it, and that does a great job at preventing damage, otherwise the ipad would long be gone.

So maybe it can best be described as a cooling and protective casing than. But for the most part it is intended for the laptop like usage (with possibly keyboard disconnected to have the screen at ergonomic eye height and the keyboard at ergonomic typing height). Maybe it could be interesting that there also would be a wall or table fixed swinging arm fixture for it, so that it can be easily replaced without interfering with the cooling pad and such. If I have time I will make some 3D rendering about mij idea. But for that I wil have to study the eve v design a bit more, to avoid covering up essential ports.

Thanks for answering!


#4

@Mike I was thinking maybe after eGPU or while we are at it we could check out if there is a possibility for liquid cooling back case for V. It would be quite innovative too.

I have one MVP idea already :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

We 3d print a plastic frame. Fix 2 aluminium frames inside. Add water inside and seal the frame. Put it into freezer and see if performance improves :slight_smile: That kind of case could work actually :slight_smile:


#5

Wouldn’t the water freeze and expand, damaging the frame? But lets say its just a cold liquid, wouldnt it just heat up pretty quickly and then have no positive effect anymore?


#6

Yeah thats an MVP :slight_smile:


#7

i know this is an ugly bulge off the side of the Magnificent V
but is there any way something like this would work??

and also instead of throwing it in the freezer it wouldn’t be too hard to make a plastic case like you want and mount a radiator either the side of the case vertically, or horizontally across the top or bottom and have it just cooling the liquid to keep the back of the eve cool. so instead of going through tubes and a water block it would just be a loop of cooling the liquid in the reservoir by either snaking tubes through the back of the case or just cooling the reservoir liquid… but it would require more power…
i will sketch something out and post it in a little bit


#8

Well I don’t have any experience with those vacuum coolers. I do have experience with laptop cooling pads, hence my idea to use a fan based cooling pad. Maybe such vacuum cooling thing can work great, I will do my research on them. if I would rely on them, than I would only need som protective casing for preventing damage. I would not want to rely on some pre frozen liquid cooling, once it is molten, it would only act as an isolating factor I guess. And if you plan to use it on the move, it can be molten even before use. But it can be some great idea for short term immediate action when overheating (a fan takes time to cool it of, the ice will cool it instantly). But a liquid cooling system like that form a pc can be a great idea for a fixed workstation where the extra bulk doesn’t matter. But than I will have to do my research on liquid cooling in a pc. Since I am only recently a backer, my eve V won’t be here before summer, so plenty of time to do my research. Would sound great to have a liquid cooled tablet :stuck_out_tongue:


#9

And after some research I can state that such vacuum fan cooling won’t work since the eve V won’t have vents. If I am well aware it will just be a solid aluminium back that also would be used to spread and dissipate the heat. So the only option would be something that would cool the back. So that would make me think a cooling pad with fans or a cooling pad with a liquid cooling circuit.


#10

I’ve been doing a bit of research on them as well. For me, I’d actually want it to be adjustable and something you could use on your lap. I would be using it for Photoshop doing large scale paintings and some 3D modelling. So ideally not too bulky. The Freezer pac version would not work for me as I do not always have access to a freezer. (only while at home)


#11

It works wether there are vents or not. The air inside the V will naturally heat up and thereby not cool the aluminium down from the inside. By sucking this hot air with these “vacuum fans” fresh air will enter through other ports or other small openings, thus providing cool air from the inside which will then absorb some heat before being sucked out again.
This may not be a perfect cooling solution but it will help just as much on the V as on other laptops, meaning only a little bit.

That being said the V is a 2in1 with a fanless design, it will simply never perform as well as a higher powered cpu with a decent cooling solution. Any extra cooling will help, yes, but it isn’t designed for heavy workloads and it just doesn’t really make sense to build a big cooling solution using thermal paste and radiators or something in that direction for this kind of device.


#12

@ToiletSheep : The systems I have seen all rely on fan vents. They use a usb port for power, not to suck out air. I don’t think the eve V will have ports that would be adequate to attempt such a vacuum usb fan. And I do understand that this device is not built for high end stuff, but the cooling solution is just meant to get a bit more out of the potential. It is not really meant to use the most expensive fans and such high end materials.

@mlivesey : Ofcourse a mobile solution would be great, so you can use it kind of like a laptop. Question: do you find mainstream cooling pads for pc’s to bulky? My first thought also was a mobile solution, and such a mobile solution that could click in a sway arm thing like they use for monitors. I am going to download google sketchup and during the week I will try to make a simple concept rendering of what I am thinking of for a mobile solution, so that you can get a better idea of what I’m thinking of. Downside of my mobile solution is that it would be kind of like a laptop, which would seem a bit ridiculous to have a 2-in-1 system in a laptop like cooling pad, but the idea is to have the back dedicated to cooling fans and backrest for the eve V and the underside would be used as powerbank for the eve V or your other devices such as smartphones etc or external powersource for the cooling fans. To make it more flexible, the bottom part and back part should be separable and the backpart should be able to run on a usb from the eve v. And the eve V should be easily removable for if you want to use it as a tablet without cooling pad.

Now that I am thinking about it, maybe I could make a prototype for my brothers surface pro. It is hard to explain the concept when it is a mental picture.


#13

I’ve never actually used a cooling pad so have no idea what I’m talking about! :slight_smile:


#14

A quick question for the developers: what are the dimensions of the eve V? Are they the same as the surface pro? For the moment I didn’t find them, so I will base my sketches on the surface pro 4.

@mlivesey It can easily ad a cm or 2-3, but I reckon 1,5 cm would be sufficient since it doesn’t need an angle as many of those cooling pads have.


#15

the dimensions are listed in the indiegogo site I think


#16

Hmm right, they do attach them to vents, sorry … but in theory any place that reaches the air inside the device should be possible to suck out some air :smiley:
about the size: 295.9 x 205.3 x 8.9


#17

Well, i dont know if the upper body is in metal for dissipation but if it is we can stick a masse passive cooling sytem to the back then …


#18

@Konstantinos i was wondering if you have any hint of how warm the V will get.
It’s one thing for the materials inside, but for the mobility and feeling in your hands it should be less than 40°C tops i’d guess.


#19

There is almost no air inside Eve V… Everything’s so tight that the performance improvement from such thing would be negligible. And if the cooling solution is done properly (which we hope it is), there won’t be any need to cool it from inside. The vast majority of the heat will be transfered to the body, so it’s a matter of cooling the body (from outside).

Even if you manage to suck some air out, it needs to go in somewhere, too. You will need a VERY powerful pump to make it significant, because the airflow will be absolutely terrible.


#20

Well it is barely significant on most devices. I think in most cases were talking 2 or 3 degrees maybe :smiley:
I expect that unless you go all in an external cooling solution will give you a minor temperature decline in exchange for an unwieldy (even just an external usb fan looks stupid in my opinion …) or bulky experience. And going all in with a huge cooling setup won’t be more beautiful :smiley: