A 2 in 1 laptop/tablet with some performance?


#103

I like your point of view! And you already agree with what I wrote about the form factor when you explicitly express your preference for a laptop with some kind of tablet functionality instead that a for a dedicated tablet tablet form like the Surface Book), just like I said here:

However I have at least one reservation on your reply: correct me if I am wrong or if you have better info on this, but most (all?) 360 “fancy” hinges are manufacturer proprietary patents. To go that route, Eve would need to industrially develop it’s own hinge or resort to 3rd party. Do you think this would still be a simple addition? I would be really happy if that is true.

And about price: better and additional internal hardware, larger touchscreen panel, a more complex design and manufacturing process… all of this would add just $200 (max! :astonished:) to the price of the V-i7? Equal design and “just” changes on internals between Eve-V models determined larger differences in prices between different versions of the V itself!.. As long as I am not proved wrong by facts, I’ll maintain my skepticism about this aspect. :wink:
However, if you are right even on this, and that is proved true: 1) I would be VERY HAPPY :slight_smile: ; 2) Eve Team is borderline to MAGIC (this is actually quite possible :stuck_out_tongue: ); 3) Once available, this product would almost erase the commercial appeal of the V-i7 from a price/value stand point 4) It would still be a $1.600 (1.700 tax+shipping included) laptop: of tremendous value, no doubt on this, and with additional functionality, no doubt either; however, already inside the pro-laptop market prices, and not below them (like the V is with respect to comparable devices).


#104

I think he meant that if we design a laptop it would cost x$ and if we add a hinge and touchscreen to it it would cost something around x+200$. So, not compared to the V, but to the laptop (“base”) that was designed.


#105

I think that Pauliunas meant that the 200$ is more than the competing classic laptop. About the hinge, I have no idea how that could be solved. For that I think that the acer aspire R7/R13 based 2 in 1 is easier: you can use a regular laptop hinge, but you have to solve the 360 hinge for the screen. On the other hand, for the classic convertibles we could also just have a look at using 2 180 degree hinges which do exist already. But I think that lacks something and that is why many manufacturers develop there own system, not just to be fancy


#106

@Brecht_Schatteman @SyrtakiVampir You are right, I reread his reply and your interpretation makes sense. :+1:
However, I am not clear at this point if you are implying/supposing that “x” or the price of the competing classic laptop is greater or smaller than that of the V?
About the price of an Eve laptop, my point was this: Eve-V success relied greatly on price, and the same will be expected on any device or product they would develop.
I said this elsewhere, but I’ll repeat it here: in my humble opinion price was the 2nd major selling point of the V; the first being the fascinating and unique idea behind crowd-developed device.)

I am very positive on this matter though: if community drives the development of the 2 in 1 laptop/tablet, the demand for the features and price-point of the device will emerge naturally.
Personally, I feel that:

  • As V owner I would value less a device with very similar form factor (and I am thinking of a Surface Book like device while saying this), especially if that means increasing price (@Helios said this much better than me);
  • In general, if I want a laptop with performance / some performance, I will look first to the performance, second to the price and then I will value all the rest in the package.
  • If “tablet mode” can be owned for “$200 more”, that can be good or not good or even irrelevant depending on the “base price” you are adding on top of. I like the device descripted by @pauliunas here, I just feel it is difficult to reach the price point he indicated ($1500) based on my limited knowledge and awareness of current offerings (by the way, $1500 is only $100 more than the V-i7, and practically equal if you factor in taxes and shipping…)

#107

I think the price will heavily depend on what hardware this laptop-like device would feature. But I think that a quad core plus a good GPU will hit over 2000$ really easily, but less sophisticated hardware can be achieved in a (500)1000-1500$ region. It just depends on what we want. But a high -end laptop with significantly more power than the V will probably start at least in the 1000-1500$ range, if it is really cheap.
Note, that I’m just throwing out random numbers. I’m not having anything specific in mind except better CPU plus GPU. But if we add more space and weight it should be pretty easy to be much better than a Surface Book with the same price. Especially, if we don’t have any detachable “tablet/screen”.


#108

Yes, but this laptop wouldn’t be thin and light like Eve V. Take a look at Lenovo Y700 for example… An excellent laptop, you can get i7/8GB model for 900 euros including 21% VAT. It’s also very light for a quad core laptop. How much would adding a touchscreen and a 360 hinge cost? $100? $200? $400? Even if you increase the price by a whopping 50%, it’s still below the $1500 mark. And that’s including VAT.


#109

Where are you pulling those prices from???
Here, look:
http://www.kilobaitas.lt/Nesiojamieji/Lenovo/Lenovo_Y700__156_Full_HD_ek/80NV00NT/CatalogStoreDetail.aspx?CatID=PL_409&ID=656963


#110

Double the RAM, add a better GPU, add the 200$ touch screen/hinge, crank up the resolution, take the retail price and subtract the middle men in the supply chain and you’re at about 1300-1400€
But as I said: I was just taking random numbers, if we’re going really high-end here. I don’t want to say that it has to be the price. Of course you can build a laptop with a GPU for 500€, but I didn’t think that this was the goal here.


#111

Removing middlemen just DEcreases the price, not INcreases it. Resolution is fine, it’s FullHD. If you want 1440p, it won’t be that much different, maybe $50. The laptop has a free RAM slot and filling it with 8GB costs another $50 to the customer, i’m sure OEM can do that for cheaper.
The GPU is as good as it gets in this type of laptops. The next one is 970M and there’s a HUGE gap between 960M and 970M. Both in terms of performance and heat/power consumption. I just don’t think a 970M would be at all suitable for a 2in1. So the price only increases by whatever the hinge + touch cost, in addition to $100 which can safely be striked out because of getting rid of middlemen and doing it Eve style.

I think the specs of the 900eur model of Y700 match the goal of this thread very well, except maybe RAM… And of course, form factor. Or do you think it should be different? If so, keep in mind the battery life and heat issues. We don’t want the 2in1 to be 4cm thick, do we? 3cm is already thick enough :slight_smile:


#112

It was supposed to be subtract. Not distract. Edited it out :sweat_smile:


#113

My point is that you listed it among the factors that increase the price. However, cutting middlemen actually makes it cheaper. So it kid of offsets some of the price difference that you have by including better components. That’s how Eve managed to get Thunderbolt and other nice features while keeping the tablet cheaper than Surface Pro 4 :slight_smile:
So, if let’s say your improvements raise the price up to $1400, you can strike out some $200 and leave it at $1200, because Eve doesn’t have middlemen between them and the buyer :slight_smile:


#114

It was also meant as a factor that decreases the price :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: I first added stuff that increased the price and then subtracted the middle men to decrease it a bit again. But at this stage the price point is highly hypothetical anyways. We don’t even know what people want and what is possible.


#115

I like that machine specs and form factor (the “gaming” style is tacky, but I know that is not the point here :slight_smile: ): my current machine is a quad core laptop, albeit an older 3rd generation i7 quadcore.
The direct competitor from Dell would be the Inspiron 7000 “Gaming” series (:weary: again, let’s skip the gaming style).
http://www.dell.com/it/p/inspiron-15-7567-laptop/pd?ref=PD_OC, and that is basically the same as the Dell Inspiron 7000 Gaming series
The asking price is €1000 for the base model (basically very comparable to Y700 you showed; all these prices also include 22% VAT); to upgrade RAM, memory (FDD+SSD), graphic card and processor they add €200: decent deal if you ask me: I would go for it, stretching my budget); for more €279 more, there is also a top of the line UHD version that also goes full SSD… Not as much value for money in this upgrade (for my use, at least) and definitely more into high price territory.

Now, if the touch panel and the 360 hinges can be had for €200 then I am happy, as I said.

However, what I see is that DELL is indeed offering an Inspiron 2in1 with 360 hinges and touchscreen: it costs €1100 Euro for the 16Gb+512 SSD version! http://www.dell.com/it/p/inspiron-15-7567-laptop/pd?ref=PD_OC But this 2in1 Inspiron it comes with substantial downgrades: it is not quad-core (i7-u), gone is the dGPU (integrated graphic card), there are less ports, the battery is dwarfed (that machine has less battery then the Eve-V, ridiculous! :sweat_smile:), the number keypad is gone…

So… very roughly:
(quad-core upgrade) + (dedicated 4gb card) + (1.75x larger double the battery) + (full keyboard & ports)

  • (360 hinge + touchscreen) = € 100

This example (and similar ones) is the reason why I still doubt that (360° hinge + touchscreen) is a $200 item you just add to a compelling laptop.
I’ll say it one time again: if it is possible, I would be happy and tempted! :slight_smile:
However, if it isn’t, and the option are either a) + $400/500 for the 360 hinged tablet mode on top of a $1100-$1200 machine or b) said machine at $1100-$1200, without hinge upgrade… I think I’d be very tempted to choose b) and keep that extra money (and buy 2/3 of an Eve-V m3 :stuck_out_tongue: !!!).


#116

You forgot to take into account that they made the 2in1 as thin as possible. That REALLY changes the price :wink:


#117

Looks like the next Surface Book could go in a different direction than before…


#118

Fancy new battery technologies? There always seems to be light on the horizon. Randomly. Glimming. Somewhere.


#119

Well, same but different… If they base it on the porsche design thing, all that would change is the hinge and the port placement. I for sure do like the hinge of porsche design, that would be a great hing for any 2 in 1 convertible (if I don’t mistake, than lenovo does also use gears for the aiding the hinge mechanism?). But after all, it stays a tablet based 2 in 1 which would probably not allow a quad core, unless some magic happens. Although, the surface book could use a quad core to get some competitiveness but I think the cooling is to problematic for them to solve now


#120

As it seems, half of the voters do like the acer aspire R7/R13 design, only a third does like the classic convertible, and a third prefers the tablet form factor. So I guess that the acer aspire R7/R13 is most preferred for a performance 2 in 1. I see that all people that voted for classic convertible or the tablet form factor did not select the acer aspire formfactor (except myself). Can I ask to those if they would agree with the acer aspire R7/R13 formfactor?

  • Not me preferred, but I can accept the form factor
  • I would not want that form factor for some reason

0 voters

Then when talking about the screen size, 14"-15" QHD is the most popular, with 1/3 of the voters voting for it. Than we have on the second place 13"-14" FHD, 13"-14" QHD+, 15"-16" QHD, 15"-16" QHD+. I guess that the 14"-15" QHD is the average of these. 13 of the 15 voters did choice something in this top 5. So would you agree with the 14"-15" QHD display?

  • Yes I would accept it
  • No I don’t want that

0 voters


#121

Something doesn’t add up here :stuck_out_tongue: 1/2 + 1/3 + 1/3 = (3+2+2)/6 = 7/6 > 1 :smiley:

But really, don’t get too serious with these polls :wink: You don’t need very exact answers, only a guideline :slight_smile:


#122

It doesn’t add up since multiple votes were allowed :wink: but almost no one did that